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Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

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Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#41

Post by MicahSeff »

I've long been a supporter of the idea that gameplay comes before graphics. Though it's certainly neat to see a demo looking so dazzling, it really doesn't say all that much to me about the future of the games industry. It's long been clear that over time games will continue to look progressively better.

This reason is why I was actually so happy to see Nintendo abandon this pursuit of ever-prettier graphics in the hopes that gamers would be drawn in by the innovative gameplay ideas that propelled the Wii to the top of the console heap this generation. Though the Wii has somewhat fallen short on my expectations, I am still impressed by Nintendo's decision.

This generation has been the death knell for countless (up-til-now) successful companies. The higher development costs of making prettier and prettier games has meant that a single flop can tank the company. It's exactly because of this that I believe we are seeing the rise of mobile and social games as they are cheap not only for the consumer to pick up, but also for the developer to produce in the first place.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#42

Post by narrator »

awj wrote: post #40
bcrescimanno wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kid--but it's the sad reality of most modern games (or at least the ones that generate the most press). Rather than just putting a new "pretty face" on the same old shooter concept that's been the norm for the past 15 or so years, I'd like to see game companies get back to innovative gameplay concepts. Interestingly, I see far more of that innovation coming from the indy publishers who don't do anything in the re…

Yeah, unfortunately as you ramp up on art assets to get to the level of "crazy 3d graphics", the people holding the money tend to want more and more of a sure thing. 'DOOM clone v 29345.2' will inevitably sell boatloads. 'Toasty the toaster & the raspberry jam rebellion', not so much.

Which is why Braid and Minecraft did so well, even though they were largely programmed by single individuals instead of large teams. They took risks that the big studios wouldn't take.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#43

Post by bcrescimanno »

awj wrote: post #40
bcrescimanno wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kid--but it's the sad reality of most modern games (or at least the ones that generate the most press). Rather than just putting a new "pretty face" on the same old shooter concept that's been the norm for the past 15 or so years, I'd like to see game companies get back to innovative gameplay concepts. Interestingly, I see far more of that innovation coming from the indy publishers who don't do anything in the re…

Yeah, unfortunately as you ramp up on art assets to get to the level of "crazy 3d graphics", the people holding the money tend to want more and more of a sure thing. 'DOOM clone v 29345.2' will inevitably sell boatloads. 'Toasty the toaster & the raspberry jam rebellion', not so much.

That's my point--all of the "big innovation" money gets thrown at graphical innovation. I'd love to see game companies innovating in other areas.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#44

Post by patrickk »

Dn_Ab wrote: post #20

Wow I could actually read the emotions on the guy's face and it didn't feel too uncanny to me at least. But calling this real-time I think is stretching things a bit, even if its using the game engine and not prerendered. The demo and assets were probably polished and optimized for that machine, angle, lighting and scenario. And it was heavily scripted. I think an engine flexible enough for more general gameplay - wi…

I remember seeing pictures around 2004/2005 of what new games would supposedly look like on the old 'next gen' (read current gen) consoles. The actual games were nowhere near the hype (games like Madden and FIFA). I seriously doubt that the next 'next gen' consoles will have graphics like this for the reasons you outline. I'd love to be wrong though. You could easily imagine this technology be used in movies - I thought Jeff Bridges' digitally altered younger version in Tron Legacy had such a case of the "uncanny valley" going on that it detracted from every scene he was in.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#45

Post by rorrr »

squidsoup wrote: post #34

As beautiful as this demo is, I think the push for realism has harmed the game industry more than it has move it forward. One of the few developers in recent memory that has managed to focus on both visual fidelity and gameplay is Bioware with the Mass Effect series; for the most part most developers aren't this successful and end up producing beautiful but lifeless, dull games. Also consider that producing art asset…

I bet more of the art will be procedurally generated.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#46

Post by Qz »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #43
awj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, unfortunately as you ramp up on art assets to get to the level of "crazy 3d graphics", the people holding the money tend to want more and more of a sure thing. 'DOOM clone v 29345.2' will inevitably sell boatloads. 'Toasty the toaster & the raspberry jam rebellion', not so much.

That's my point--all of the "big innovation" money gets thrown at graphical innovation. I'd love to see game companies innovating in other areas.

You mean like Kinect? That wasn't chump change by any means.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#47

Post by Qz »

w1ntermute wrote: post #36
iaskwhy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this means anything but Sony has been releasing a new generation every 6 years (1994, 2000, 2006, 2012?).

Well when did we first start hearing news about the PSes 1-3, relative to their release dates? The PS3 was announced on May 16, 2005 (wow, that's so long ago!) and was released in Japan on November 11, 2006. That means that if a PS4 will be coming out on schedule, we should be hearing news very soon.

Sony has made statements to the effect that they consider the PS3 a 10-year console, so time to start waiting for an announcement would be 2015 or so.

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#49

Post by kevingadd »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #29

Not to put too fine a "trolling point" on it--but after playing Final Fantasy XIII I'm inclined for game developers to take a step back in terms of their graphics aspirations to continue to deliver quality games. It's been speculated (and supposedly admitted to--though being at work I don't have time to dig up a link) that the incredibly linear world of FFXIII was a direct result of being overambitious with the graph…

Final Fantasy 13's failings were mostly due to a horribly dysfunctional studio environment and a broken development process. They released a surprisingly honest postmortem of the project in a recent issue of Game Developer (you can find a summary of it at http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/30640/Exclusive_Behind_Th... ), and 'overambitious with the graphics' pales in comparison to the other things that went wrong. My favorite tidbit: They went through a large portion of the project with the game not in a playable state until they realized they needed to build a demo, and only then did they finally get the game playable and start testing it.

Perhaps one might say that developers are aiming too high in every respect (including graphics), and that's leading to flawed projects. But in this specific case, I doubt the game would have turned out good even if the graphics weren't given the effort they got. In many cases it's possible for a studio to easily scale up development when it comes to graphics, because with strong enough art direction, you can have 50 or 100 artists working on assets for different parts of a game and have a reasonable chance of tying all that art together at the end. Unfortunately, engineering teams don't scale nearly that well...

Re: Epic Games shows jaw-dropping graphics for next-generation consoles

#50

Post by almond »

Yes, the skin rendering was very nice, and the lighting was great. Which brought into sharp relief how little progress has been made on procedural character animation. When the welder-guy walked across the roof and stopped on the edge, you could see a painfully clear walking loop and outro animation back to the standing position -- very familiar from the earlier Unreal engines (except for the residual swinging of the arms). It is jarring to see such mechanical movements in a demo where the quality of the graphics is so realistic. Epic should use Euphoria or some other engine for procedural body movements. The act of walking to the ledge of a roof to inspect a fight below shouldn't look like any other kind of walk.
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