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Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

airbreak.dev

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Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#61
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's irresponsible for non-medical researchers to not only pursue, but also disseminate, these jailbreaks. A good portion of medical device RnD is related to creating technology that is hard to misuse and result in accidental death, and I just don't see that here. This is simply wrong, both from a user perspective and a general research perspective. Positioning a jailbreak like this as a solution to general vent sh…

Perhaps this is aimed at non-American healthcare systems, but I have not seen a single report of American hospitals running out of ventilators, let alone BiPaP machines. In order for this to be a responsible hack — used under the guidance of medical professionals — we would need to have run out of both. If anything, at least in the American context, I'm more worried about running out of the sedative necessary for ven…

> but I have not seen a single report of American hospitals running out of ventilators

Are you really not going to just google "USA ventilator shortage"?

Also BiPaP machines require the same hack as CPAP machines. And of course a further hack for invasive intubation (which ventilators can do out of the box), though you aren't going to do that to your nightstand CPAP machine either.

Anyways, rest assured that the few people who can be bothered to jailbreak their CPAP machine are not the same kind of people who drink their koi pond cleaner. I think this kind of fear about people hacking their gadgets is misplaced.

It also reeks of what I can only register as this weird "doc knows best" subservience to the medical system. This is probably the weirdest meme I see on HN. And, as people upstream point out, nobody out there is paying attention to your insulin pump or CPAP machine settings. They just leave it on whatever default setting. It's all entirely on you to do the research to improve things for you.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#62

Messing with vents if you don't know what you're doing sounds like a sure fire way to kill yourself.

Only if you're unconscious, and in that case you should be in a hospital anyway. If you're conscious you'll just pull the mask off if you start feeling like you are not getting the right air. These machines, and masks, have all kinds of safety features and safety valves on them. I have a CPAP, oxygen concentrator and assorted hoses and masks, and I've messed around with them these days while watching ventilator 101 v…

CPAP machines are usually used when you're asleep, right? Since sleep apnea can sometimes be fatal, it seems like screwing up your CPAP machine could conceivably lead to your death.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also need to warm and humidify the air because ventilators are inserted past the part of your respiratory system that does that. Many (most?) CPAP's do that. When you have to fill the reservoir every night you get an interesting perspective on the amount of water you breathe in eight hours.

> When you have to fill the reservoir every night I accidentally found out one night that I don't need the air to be humidified. That was a revelation, and one that's saved me a lot of work since.

Mine makes a burning smell if I run out of water in the night. Wakes me up very quickly.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#64
post #3

Not a doctor. A major issue with using this type of CPAP machine on a Covid-19 positive person is the high amount of aerosolized virus particles it exhausts. Anyone using this should be extremely careful and know what they're doing. That being said, doctors in many countries are using positive air pressure machines with an air-tight helmet/bag with filtered exhaust.

If you're using this where non-COVID patients could be exposed (e.g. at home) this is a very important consideration.

In a hospital setting (aka an emergency), it's less of an issue. The situation that would warrant this would likely also warrant full PPE just to enter a unit or building.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#65
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what it says right there on the page already: "Additional equipment like viral filters are also required."

So it's okay to show someone how to make something extremely hazardous as long as you include a flimsy nonspecific disclaimer?

I believe so, yes. I like to think people can make reasonable decisions with information they are provided

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you're unconscious, and in that case you should be in a hospital anyway. If you're conscious you'll just pull the mask off if you start feeling like you are not getting the right air. These machines, and masks, have all kinds of safety features and safety valves on them. I have a CPAP, oxygen concentrator and assorted hoses and masks, and I've messed around with them these days while watching ventilator 101 v…

CPAP machines are usually used when you're asleep, right? Since sleep apnea can sometimes be fatal, it seems like screwing up your CPAP machine could conceivably lead to your death.

Note: all of my messing around was just changing settings. No hardware/firmware hacking, so technically the machine is just as fine as before.

And I've bought the machine specifically for coronavirus, since my country health system is quite poor, I don't use it during the night.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#68
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what it says right there on the page already: "Additional equipment like viral filters are also required."

So it's okay to show someone how to make something extremely hazardous as long as you include a flimsy nonspecific disclaimer?

Actually yes(not that this is particularly dangerous) . It happens litteraly all the time. Ever seen all those "don't try this at home" disclaimers? Also someone published a book called "the anarchist cook book" on how to make rudimentary explosives and manufacture illicit substances such as LSD. You can find a pdf of it with a quick google search.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is aimed at non-American healthcare systems, but I have not seen a single report of American hospitals running out of ventilators, let alone BiPaP machines. In order for this to be a responsible hack — used under the guidance of medical professionals — we would need to have run out of both. If anything, at least in the American context, I'm more worried about running out of the sedative necessary for ven…

> but I have not seen a single report of American hospitals running out of ventilators Are you really not going to just google "USA ventilator shortage"? Also BiPaP machines require the same hack as CPAP machines. And of course a further hack for invasive intubation (which ventilators can do out of the box), though you aren't going to do that to your nightstand CPAP machine either. Anyways, rest assured that the few…

The search you propose doesn't rebut their comment. We're all aware of the concern about shortages. Their claim was different.

There are stories about NYT hospitals doubling up patients on ventilators, but those stories are explicit about the fact that those hospitals have not run out of vents, and are instead working out the protocols for sharing them when/if it becomes necessary.

Re: Airbreak.dev: Jailbreak your CPAP machine to turn them into ventilators

#70
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's okay to show someone how to make something extremely hazardous as long as you include a flimsy nonspecific disclaimer?

I believe so, yes. I like to think people can make reasonable decisions with information they are provided

If people can make reasonable decisions all of the time, why do we even have laws? Reasonable people wouldn't violate them anyway.
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