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The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

the-tls.co.uk

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Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#61

Post by 8fingerlouie »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Faceb…

>Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years

The main issue, at least for me, is that everything social that is happening is arranged through Facebook. My kids school events, social events in the town i live in, hell even the good old paper adds from our local grocery store has been replaced with posts on Facebook. Everything is announced and coordinated through Facebook.

So going "cold turkey" is not really an option unless i want to be left out of everything that is going on. That doesn't mean i don't care. I don't have the app installed, and usually don't browse it on my phone. Instead i limit it to "checking todays news" on Firefox (with facebook container) on my PC at home.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#62

Post by CaptArmchair »

Lio wrote: post #35
inthreedee wrote: post #20

The tone of the article dips a bit too far into sensationalism and fear mongering for my taste. While the concerns expressed are absolutely legitimate, I grow weary of people spreading fear for the sake of fear (or worse, clicks) without any mention of what we can do to protect ourselves. Spreading fear and then calling people to action based on that fear is not really leading us down a good path. I've noticed the ef…

The problem here is that surveillance firms _are_ out of control and there isn’t much you can do about it. Even if you leave their platform they won’t leave you alone. How exactly can you stop Facebook compiling shadow profiles? How do you stop Google Analytics without installing more of their software? We used to be able to say no to software, now it’s all “Not Right Now”.

> there isn’t much you can do about it

1. Support advocacy groups that defend your rights (i.e. make a donation, become a member, participate in activities) 2. Send letters, e-mails to or call your representatives expressing your concerns. 3. Attend protests when those are organized. 4. Use your right to vote. Make an informed decision. 5. Educate those around you about viable options, such as they are. 6. Support technological efforts such as they are: document, give feedback, report bugs, inform yourself about alternatives, use them. 7. Inform others, those that are also concerned, about steps 1 to 6.

Your civil and human rights are never ever self-evident or to be taken for granted. They are not unmovable natural laws. Their existence hinges entirely on the willingness of society at large as well as individual responsibility to defend the basic principles and uphold the culture that underpin them.

So, when it comes to defending your rights, safeguarding them boils down to one brutally simple question: how hard are you willing to pull your weight?

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#63

Post by anoncake »

markovbot wrote: post #33
lisper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a job for a burner phone.

Why would someone buy a whole new phone just to use a shitty advertising network they explicitly did not want to use?

Because due to network effects they effectively have to use it.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#64

Post by normalnorm »

hoseja wrote: post #42

What the hell is people's problem with StreetView specifically, is what I don't get. Do you foam at the mouth from the prospect of people taking mapping photos from planes? Satellites? I suspect it was nuclear energy-style panic in Germany. They seem to be way easily manipulated. Hmmmm.

I much prefer living in a place that errs on the side of too much caution when it comes to privacy. You say "easily manipulated", I say that they have social memory of the horrors of the Stasi. After the fall of the Berlin wall, the Stasi archives were disclosed. The awareness of the amount of information hoarded on so many citizens with the help of friends, family & neighbors was deeply traumatic. Some people even decided they didn't want to know, so that they wouldn't find something about someone close that was hard to forgive.

In my view, this cultural and social memory makes the Germans less insane on the topic of privacy, not more. We can see very well how in most of the modern world how insidious the process is. We make small concessions, little by little, and soon we live under total surveillance. It doesn't seem like that long ago that using your real identity on the internet was considered unwise. Now people are voluntarily giving deeply personal information to shady operations such as FB.

I hope the Germans are not convinced by people like you, and that they remain healthily paranoid about privacy. It's one of the things I appreciate the most about living here. I feel the laws actually protect me against the bad guys on this topic.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#65

Post by IanSanders »

TheOperator wrote: post #8

>But the pop-up won’t let us pass without clicking “agree”. Opting out is an illusion. I mean this is a weird way to phrase it but you definitely cannot participate in modern society without hindering yourself in various meaningful ways if you do not "opt-in" to giving up your privacy. "Opt-in" requirements have consequently struck me as "privacy theatre" which mostly irritates. I don't see any solution for the curre…

Breaches are just part of the problem. You can have no breaches and no privacy at the same time

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#66

Post by jwr »

fmajid wrote: post #60
jwr wrote: post #49

Oh, the irony of this article slamming me in the face with a sleazy "We need your consent" dialog with intentionally confusing options and sub-dialogs... My "consent" is being forced out of me so that roughly ~100 (at a first glance) "partners" can invade my privacy and learn about my browsing habits. By the way, if you are a programmer and you implement those sleazy dialogs, think about your life choices.

On the positive side, the Quantcast cookie popups now offer a choice between "Accept All" and "Reject All". Previously they offered "Accept All" or "Click here to enter our deliberately confusing rat's warren of options". I wonder if the French DPA's announcement that they will start cracking down on dark patterns like this was the impetus for the change.

Well, it's true that this popup was slightly less sleazy and misleading, but it wasn't that great, either.

Just for reference (since it is obviously needed), if someone really DOES want to slam readers in the face with a popup as the first thing they see, here is some non-confusing wording:

"Do you agree to be tracked using cookies by 134 advertising companies (link to full list)?"

Two large buttons: "Yes" "No".

Yes or No. Not "Configure", not "adjust my preferences", not "Leave" which doesn't actually leave, not "Settings" which takes you to a list of all the "partners" with individual switches, no dark patterns. Yes or no.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#67

Post by Juliate »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #61
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Faceb…

>Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years The main issue, at least for me, is that everything social that is happening is arranged through Facebook. My kids school events, social events in the town i live in, hell even the good old paper adds from our local grocery store has been replaced with posts on Facebook. Everything is announced and coor…

It is always an option.

It starts with replying "I don't have Facebook and won't sign up to this thing" to everyone that explain that they are only on Facebook; even before you close your account. Just signalling that Facebook-only is not ok.

You're not so much being left out of everything as much as they are leaving people (you're far from alone) out of their events.

And that's part of the clever thing Facebook does to make you believe you have no option but theirs.

It took me 3 years from starting to reduce to finally deleting my account. I only wish I did it way sooner.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#68

Post by anoncake »

ailideex wrote: post #45
jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

> I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. I actually don't entirely see the problem here. I mean taking money from Scientologists to fund services I use (I don't use facebook, but hypothetically if I did ...) is a good thing in my view. I guess you are worried that people will convert to Scientology, but really if the only thing that i…

Ads don't just inform people that Scientology exists, that's widely known. They try to manipulate them into joining. The "real" problem here is that people can be manipulated like that. But until we find a way to remove that vulnerability we must stop Scientology from exploiting it.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#69

Post by kerrsclyde »

smichel17 wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Faceb…

When I deleted my account, I went through one additional step: 6. Delete your account. Create a new account under a pseudonym. Add a single friend, who can add you to group chats. At this point, you should have a near-empty news feed; Facebook is only for staying in touch with the group (eg, not missing out on social events) until people have gotten used to texting you to invite you to things. You won't be able to co…

Bookmark the groups you want to periodically check.

Stay away from the newsfeed on the home page, no distraction and no mindless scrolling.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#70

Post by stOneskull »

jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

i'd love for everyone to have a website and a connection system so you 'friend' other websites.
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