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The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

the-tls.co.uk

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Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#11

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now

Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years:

1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then

2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next

3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then

4. Delete the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps from your phone; and finally

5. Log out of Facebook on your desktop.

It took me 2 years to go through from step 1 to step 5. It has made me happier and more productive. I still have a Facebook account. But the friction of grabbing my laptop and logging in forces me to consider "is this what I want to do? Or am I thoughtlessly reaching for the crack pipe?" (It's been over a year since I've cared to log into Facebook. Feels more like trudging through spam in an old e-mail inbox, now, than anything compelling.)

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#12

Post by mjevans »

TheOperator wrote: post #10
brachi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many sites won't even load nor give you a warning when you just opt out of JS (e.g. by using an addon like NoScript). Even very big ones, like twitch.

I don't see how you could remove JS from twitch without gutting a huge chunk of the functionality.

Do it like they did in the good old days when JS was new and couldn't be relied upon to exist.

Don't rely upon it to exist.

Serve up well marked content, CSS that might format it nicely, and JavaScript that allows some types of per-validation to happen client side but only as a means of making a page nicer. The server side should STILL perform all data validation, normalization, and verification (assume someone will craft their own form submission).

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#13

Post by koolba »

brachi wrote: post #4
identity0 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how a text based website doesn't work without JS.

It's amazing how many sites won't even load nor give you a warning when you just opt out of JS (e.g. by using an addon like NoScript). Even very big ones, like twitch.

On the flip side a lot of sites, in particular news sites, work better with JS disabled. They load faster, the entire content is visible, and oddly enough the majority of paywalls seem to be implemented client side and it neatly bypasses them.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#14

Post by basicplus2 »

jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

Even worse, even if you don't have facebook you are still tracked by facebook from apps you use that track your activity for them.

The only way to interact with what they collect is to have a facebook account!

https://www.facebook.com/off_facebook_activity

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#15

Post by Thriptic »

jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

It's worth it. It is occasionally annoying to not be able to easily interact with some people or find a person or two to talk to, but other than that there isn't much downside. I got back time each day that I was wasting on FB, I found that I didn't care much about the content that I was missing, my privacy has improved, and I got away from the outrage culture that permeates most social networks. After I quit FB I was living with roommates who were constantly agro about random stuff that was ultimately irrelevant which they learned about through IG and Twitter. It was definitely making them less happy.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#16

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

mjevans wrote: post #12
TheOperator wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you could remove JS from twitch without gutting a huge chunk of the functionality.

Do it like they did in the good old days when JS was new and couldn't be relied upon to exist. Don't rely upon it to exist. Serve up well marked content, CSS that might format it nicely, and JavaScript that allows some types of per-validation to happen client side but only as a means of making a page nicer. The server side should STILL perform all data validation, normalization, and verification (assume someone will…

No, Twitch specifically. It's an interactive chat and live video streaming application that happens to be built out of web tech. If you don't have AJAX, you could maybe-kinda-sorta kludge it together out of forms and video elements, but it'd degrade hard, and need to be built completely different from the normally-interactive version.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#17

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

celeritascelery wrote: post #5
brachi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many sites won't even load nor give you a warning when you just opt out of JS (e.g. by using an addon like NoScript). Even very big ones, like twitch.

Twitch I can see. Very complicated interface and chat setup. But I was surprised to see a warning on stackoverflow.

On the bright side, SO warns you that it might degrade, but it does actually work fine (heck, I can browse SO in dillo without issue), which is far better than most sites, and actually pretty decent.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#18

Post by smichel17 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Faceb…

When I deleted my account, I went through one additional step:

6. Delete your account. Create a new account under a pseudonym. Add a single friend, who can add you to group chats.

At this point, you should have a near-empty news feed; Facebook is only for staying in touch with the group (eg, not missing out on social events) until people have gotten used to texting you to invite you to things.

You won't be able to comment on anything public because if your account gets reported as a fake, you'll be locked out of the account unless you provide ID (which of course you can't do, since it's not your real name).

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#19

Post by Iv »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
jgacook wrote: post #7

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perh…

> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Faceb…

I know very well why I am still using FB: there is a single group that I am working with that uses it as its main channel of communication. And I don't want to invest the effort to make them switch right now.

What I did was an alternate plan that can work for many:

- Don't install the Facebook app, but the FB Messenger lite app. No access to the walls.

- Mute channels you don't want to be pinged about (most of them except two in my case)

- Logging out of FB on the desktop is a good idea but I really type faster on a keyboard so often when pinged I'll just open up FF (with all the fencing in place) for a quick answer.

Re: The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

#20

Post by inthreedee »

The tone of the article dips a bit too far into sensationalism and fear mongering for my taste. While the concerns expressed are absolutely legitimate, I grow weary of people spreading fear for the sake of fear (or worse, clicks) without any mention of what we can do to protect ourselves. Spreading fear and then calling people to action based on that fear is not really leading us down a good path.

I've noticed the effects of this reaching normal people. It can be debilitating when they're spoon-fed fear without a corresponding dose of digital safety education. They're afraid of these companies or the internet in general but don't really know why. That kind of environment makes it all too easy for someone with an agenda to step in and take control of the narrative, manipulating people for their own purposes. "You're afraid. Let me tell you why you're afraid and how I'm going to fix it. Vote for me."

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