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What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

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Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#61

Post by easymodex »

comsolo wrote: post #53
undershirt wrote: post #21

A weird hypothesis is that a dream might not even be a story until you wake up—like a wave function collapse[1] of abstract brain activity. Freud wrote about a man being jolted awake by his headboard falling on his neck the very moment he had been guillotined in a dream, and I think most of us have examples. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

I have experienced several instances where I dream that I am with some friend/colleague/etc e.g. helping him/her solve some problem. Upon waking up, I check my phone and then sure enough that same friend has in fact contacted with the same or similar message as in my dream. In several instances these are people I haven't heard from in a long time, with some very hard to guess specific reason why they contacted me. (E…

I also have some stories like that. One time I dreamt about a friend who I haven't seen or heard from for more than a year and the same day I run into him at a random gas station on the other side of town. I mean I know this is probably a coincidence but it's just one of those moments where you start thinking if there is something supernatural about it.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#62

Post by WhompingWindows »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #7
WhompingWindows wrote: post #6

I like to think music is just tickling peoples' eardrums. Musicians really are just vibrating the air, creating sound waves, thus music is inherently ephemeral. Written and recorded works utilize our memory and psychology to take us on a journey through time, telling us a story, conveying message and meaning through many moments of ear tickling.

Music is just tickling peoples' eardrums in the same way that looking at your newborn baby is just indirect light illuminating your retina.

Music is primarily for entertainment and evocation of emotion, as well as secondarily for dance, exercise, distraction, community building... All of these require a vibration of the eardrums, and such is my temperament that I love to have fun and stay light-hearted, so most of my music fits the tickling vibe. Not intensely sad/slow music, granted, but I very rarely play that myself :)

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#63

Post by yters »

keiferski wrote: post #41

It's a bit hard to understand without the background philosophical knowledge, but Schopenhauer's aesthetic ideas on music are quite beautiful. A concise, oversimplified version of his thought would be that lyric-less music brings us closer to direct reality, since it doesn't replicate any forms in nature. Unlike all of the other arts, which express or copy the Ideas (the essential features of the phenomenal world), S…

The world seems to be a bunch of subatomic particles bumping into each other, not 'will', wonder what Schopenhauer means?

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#64

Post by samatman »

irrational wrote: post #13
DonaldFisk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know you don't dream? Maybe you do but don't remember your dreams.

What's the difference between not dreaming and not remembering your dreams? I'm nearly 50 and I have absolutely no recollection of ever dreaming. Not once have I woken up and remembered anything happening between falling asleep and waking up. So, to the best of my knowledge I have never dreamed.

Kind of a philosophical question, but not really.

The connection between dreaming and REM, a physical and measurable action of the eyes, is firmly established.

Most dreams are forgotten, for most people. If someone takes Ambien and has no recollection of their actions, those actions still happened.

I would say that whether or not you dream relates to whether or not you REM, and you most likely do.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#65

Post by keiferski »

yters wrote: post #63
keiferski wrote: post #41

It's a bit hard to understand without the background philosophical knowledge, but Schopenhauer's aesthetic ideas on music are quite beautiful. A concise, oversimplified version of his thought would be that lyric-less music brings us closer to direct reality, since it doesn't replicate any forms in nature. Unlike all of the other arts, which express or copy the Ideas (the essential features of the phenomenal world), S…

The world seems to be a bunch of subatomic particles bumping into each other, not 'will', wonder what Schopenhauer means?

I don't think Schopenhauer's concept of the will and subatomic particles are mutually exclusive. He's pretty clear on what "will" means, but you have to study his philosophy to find out.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#66

Post by viklove »

comsolo wrote: post #53
undershirt wrote: post #21

A weird hypothesis is that a dream might not even be a story until you wake up—like a wave function collapse[1] of abstract brain activity. Freud wrote about a man being jolted awake by his headboard falling on his neck the very moment he had been guillotined in a dream, and I think most of us have examples. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

I have experienced several instances where I dream that I am with some friend/colleague/etc e.g. helping him/her solve some problem. Upon waking up, I check my phone and then sure enough that same friend has in fact contacted with the same or similar message as in my dream. In several instances these are people I haven't heard from in a long time, with some very hard to guess specific reason why they contacted me. (E…

> Or is there perhaps some kind of vaguely wavefunction/quantum/etc phenomena that leads some information to be transmitted back in time by a few minutes? Hard to say, but definitely food for thought

Ha, much more likely is that in your dream the person was nonspecific, and when you woke up your brain "altered" the memory to be about the person who texted you.

There is well documented evidence that human memory is extremely suggestible, and I think that is a far more likely explanation than... information time travel.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#67

Post by comsolo »

viklove wrote: post #66
comsolo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have experienced several instances where I dream that I am with some friend/colleague/etc e.g. helping him/her solve some problem. Upon waking up, I check my phone and then sure enough that same friend has in fact contacted with the same or similar message as in my dream. In several instances these are people I haven't heard from in a long time, with some very hard to guess specific reason why they contacted me. (E…

> Or is there perhaps some kind of vaguely wavefunction/quantum/etc phenomena that leads some information to be transmitted back in time by a few minutes? Hard to say, but definitely food for thought Ha, much more likely is that in your dream the person was nonspecific, and when you woke up your brain "altered" the memory to be about the person who texted you. There is well documented evidence that human memory is ex…

Possibly. But I remember very specifically thinking about the person in question prior to receiving the message.

We really don't understand that much about consciousness (or many other phenomena). It's not that outlandish that there may be some strange behaviour of time. Many physicists suggest its structured more like strings or otherwise more "liquid" than a linear timeline

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#68

Post by tartoran »

irrational wrote: post #55
tartoran wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears you have musical anhedonia: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/03/please-do... Not sure how it relates to you not being able to have or remember dreams but it’s a very intersting coincidence nonetheless

Yes, I do have musical anhedonia.

I think you may have something that I don't have, as I believe in more or less a zero sum game in terms of mental functions: e.g. a blind person develops other senses better such as hearing or spatial orientation etc. I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum, more like a music hedonist, though lately I started to enjoy silence just as much. Do you feel that you have some sense more developed than the norm?

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#69

Post by fg6hr »

irrational wrote: post #57
fg6hr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting case. Can you feel fear, anger or excitement when awake? Dreaming and emotions are "done" by a very specific part of us that connects, in some sense, mind with body.

Yes, I can feel fear, anger, excitement and all other emotions when awake.

Then I'd rather believe that you don't keep memories from dreaming because emotions and dreaming are "done" by the same part of our bodies.

Re: What is music? A unified theory of music and dreaming

#70

Post by yters »

keiferski wrote: post #65
yters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world seems to be a bunch of subatomic particles bumping into each other, not 'will', wonder what Schopenhauer means?

I don't think Schopenhauer's concept of the will and subatomic particles are mutually exclusive. He's pretty clear on what "will" means, but you have to study his philosophy to find out.

Ah, you are right: "a mindless, aimless, non-rational impulse at the foundation of our instinctual drives, and at the foundational being of everything."

Very much like subatomic particles randomly bumping into each other.

But, also very much unlike music, at least the enjoyable kind of music. Does sound similar to the music of Lovecraftian novels, though.

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