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VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

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Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#61

Post by exikyut »

Willamin wrote: post #38
tombert wrote: post #22

You know, people like to crap on Flash (and there are valid reasons to do so), but I really miss how quick you could get a game built with it, while it still felt like "real" programming. With Flash, I felt like a nice "one-stop-shop" in a lot of ways; you could draw your graphics, animate them, and code them, and you could get a simple game made in an hour or two. I haven't tried Unity or really any other dedicated…

Would it be ridiculous to write a Flash game then package it with Electron bundled with a Flash Player? I feel like the issues most people have with Flash are one of two things. It isn't a great choice for rich interfaces (especially things that aren't games) when considering accessibility and different screen sizes. It also presents security vulnerabilities when it was intended to be sandboxed. By moving it from web…

There are many interesting potential outcomes that could emerge from such an idea.

Here is one that would be a tad awkward:

- The concept goes appreciably (if not crazily) viral, people start distributing "SWF-lectron" containers, and much fun is had by all.

- Flash is officially deprecated (incidentally 20 days from now, the 11th of January 2020). It dies; the bitrot process is exponentially accelerated because of the huge installed base yet abrupt and utter lack of updates. Many, many, MANY vulnerabilities are found in the platform. How much impact do they have? Theoretically little to none. But you never know.

- The Electron containers used in this idea probably never get updated. It proves surprisingly easy to just wait for Chrome 0days to float to the top of the pond, scoop them up, and rework them.

Practically speaking I know the above will never really eventuate. But it's what I envisage; more generally, that anything that leverages Flash will fall victim to a very mature ecosystem of hackers (the cracker kind) who've been studying the platform for years, and have a once-in-a-lifetime moment to attack while the platform remains installed.

Flash will have a half-life of years, but it's going to become a VERY big target, I think.

I think.

Maybe I'm wrong/being overdramatic/freaking out/am wearing too many security hats at once/none of the above?

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#62

Post by tudelo »

teddyh wrote: post #24
floatingatoll wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much more strict than CC-BY-NC, unless I’m missing something? The “you may not represent your fork as my product” is a good abuse prevention that I’m not sure the equivalent CC contains, good call including that.

“ You may not alter or redistribute this software in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation. ” This kind of stuff is generally regarded as non-Open Source.

Why? The source is open to the public?

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#63

Post by Wowfunhappy »

teddyh wrote: post #24
floatingatoll wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much more strict than CC-BY-NC, unless I’m missing something? The “you may not represent your fork as my product” is a good abuse prevention that I’m not sure the equivalent CC contains, good call including that.

“ You may not alter or redistribute this software in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation. ” This kind of stuff is generally regarded as non-Open Source.

Terry is no longer calling this open source after someone pointed this out. The title of the original article now reads "VVVVVV’s Source Code Is Now Public".

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#64

Post by exikyut »

tudelo wrote: post #60
spiralganglion wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just looks like typical game dev code to me. You treat the code like a scratchpad, exploring the space and looking for things that work well. Lots of things written once and never touched again, lots of things written with magic numbers because that makes it easier to delete.

Whenever I look at game source code, I start to realize how all of the crazy speedrun glitches exist

Especially on limited platforms of old, where crazy hacks were necessary to get the game to fit in the cartridge/RAM/CPU speed.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#65

Post by ranger207 »

KapKap55 wrote: post #57
ranger207 wrote: post #54

The Awesome Games Done Quick speedrunning marathon [0] ran this game this morning. I didn't get a chance to see it, but I wonder if they mentioned anything about its tenth anniversary? Watch for the video here [1] after today's stream is archived. [0] gamesdonequick.com [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/ek9zmz/agdq_vod_t...

This source code release was actually announced at AGDQ on a custom end-game screen once the runner completed it, which is why you're hearing about it now.

Whoops, I missed that. Have to watch it when I get home then!

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#66

Post by tombert »

toper-centage wrote: post #49
tombert wrote: post #22

You know, people like to crap on Flash (and there are valid reasons to do so), but I really miss how quick you could get a game built with it, while it still felt like "real" programming. With Flash, I felt like a nice "one-stop-shop" in a lot of ways; you could draw your graphics, animate them, and code them, and you could get a simple game made in an hour or two. I haven't tried Unity or really any other dedicated…

There are also great Javascript platforms for all kinds of purposes these days. As a former flash developer (hobbyist level) I do not miss Flash at all.

That's probably fair; I think part of my rose-colored viewing of this is in no small part because I largely don't do any kind of games programming anymore, and as a result am largely ignorant to the newer alternatives to Flash.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#67

Post by scotth »

If anyone is looking for a really great game, you should check out Terry's latest, Dicey Dungeons. Incredible variation. Each episode and character has you discovering new strategies and play styles.

30% off on Steam right now: https://store.steampowered.com/app/861540/Dicey_Dungeons/

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#69

Post by jordigh »

RHSeeger wrote: post #59
ddevault wrote: post #10

This is really great! I wish they wouldn't call it "open source", though. It looks like a source-available license: https://github.com/TerryCavanagh/VVVVVV/blob/master/LICENSE.... If Terry is reading this, please correct your article. The correct terminology is important! Open source is defined by the OSD, which this license doesn't qualify for: https://opensource.org/osd Kudos for releasing your game's source, thoug…

> Open source is defined by the OSD To be a bit pedantic, your statement is a slightly ambiguous. They have a good/accurate definition of open source. They don't "define it" in that they can change the definition to mean "and the packaging must be blue" and that becomes part of what open source means.

Yes, OSI is responsible for the OSD, but the term has gotten somewhat "genericised". It's like saying that the Kimberly-Clark company doesn't define what "kleenex" is anymore.

Whenever this debates comes up everyone always says, "wait, the term existed before OSI", but no, it really did not. Essentially nobody was saying "open source" before 1998 when OSI and Tim O'Reilly started pushing "open source".

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-meme-hustler

"Open source" wasn't our idea, and the greatest marketing trick that OSI ever did was convince so many of us that it was.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#70

Post by azhenley »

KapKap55 wrote: post #55
tombert wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Haxe have drawing tools too? I thought it was just a programming environment (very possible I'm wrong though).

Haxe is just a language. However, there are several graphical frameworks that allow for that. Dicey Dungeons (his newest game) is specifically built off the OpenFL framework which tries to replicate the Flash API.

I always used the Flash WYSISWYG editor for the canvas and graphics, so OpenFL isn't a replacement at all in that respect.
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