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Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

catalannews.com

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Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#61

Post by UserIsUnused »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #42
UserIsUnused wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have gone the legal route, and push to amend the constitution first. Not doing so shows the manipulative/dishonest nature of the leaders.

Your reply shows your manipulative and dishonest nature. There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution. - They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth - They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen. - They do not accept the authority of the gov…

The other regions of Spain are not so much Castile lovers as you think.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#62

Post by mamborambo »

The idea of "digital republic" is fascinating. Politically it may be controversial, but technically it deserves further study. As the world shifts to the nomadic, post-industrial, cloud-based societies, countries like Estonia with e-residency may become popular for people to opt-in to join countries with the best social compact.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#63

Post by AllegedAlec »

UserIsUnused wrote: post #48
buboard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok the catalans may be arrogant, but did something significantly change in recent years? Usually these bravado-led movements are a result of stagnant economy like in Italy.

Well, there was the global crisis, that Spain was affected. Besides that, I don't think that there was anything big, it's just with the rise of things like populism and patriotism, it's normal for these movements to rise as well, as they already existed. It was just short of some leaders, and opportunity. The secession of Catalonia actually appeals to me, but these seems more manipulation by their charismatic leader…

> Besides that, I don't think that there was anything big

The economy is still fucked. Spain has an overall unemployment rate of roughly 15%, and over 30% unemployment of people under 25.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#64

Post by captainbland »

mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

I think a big part of it is the history of the Franco dictatorship and its persecution of Catalonian culture and people. That kind of thing leaves a scar.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#65

Post by joscas »

throwaway8756 wrote: post #45
AllegedAlec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reply shows your manipulative and dishonest nature. There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution. - They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth - They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen. - They do not accept the authority of the gov…

To be honest, they voted the constitution in 1978, not that long ago

The choice at that time was military rule vs. constitution. What would you pick?

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#66

Post by yeahforsureman »

kuu wrote: post #46

What will they expect of a state defending itself and trying to keep its integrity? The Spanish constitution says that the country includes Catalonia and that the State must defend the country integrity. Modify the constitution by democracy if you don't like it, but stop promoting undemocratic and unconstitutional ideas.

Well, how about acting like a civilized European state going about it, including respecting the freedoms of speech and assembly as fundamental rights? The recent developments look very bad, and the Spanish state seems to be engaging in blatant abuse of their anti-terrorism laws.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#67

Post by throwaway8756 »

carokann wrote: post #58

Separatist movements in Spain are dangerous for the entirety of Europe. The world is much less stable nowadays and the last thing you'd want is an armed civil-war like conflict in the heart of Europe. But i'm a Turk that grew up watching news of my fellow citizens killed by separatists on the TV so maybe i'm a little bit more sensitive to this issue.

You are not wrong. In fact, there're some suspicious that third countries support independence movements directly or indirectly. If you think about it, nowadays it's far easier to break a country from inside than starting a war.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#68

Post by tcard »

mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

> why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain?

I won't actually answer the question (it's complex, and others have done so already). I just want to make sure people understand that we don't really know what "Catalonia" wants because no real referendum has taken place.

Catalonia is a heterogeneous society that has attracted lots of immigration from poorer regions of Spain over the last decades, and claiming that "Catalans" want independence without doubt can only be done by adopting a dangerously ethnocentric meaning of "Catalan".

If you look at regional elections, separatist parties have consistently achieved less than 50% of the votes, even when posed as "plesbicitary" [1] on the issue. They've only managed to form governments because, as it's often the case, the electoral system over-represents rural areas.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Catalan_regional_election

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#69

Post by professorTuring »

mamborambo wrote: post #62

The idea of "digital republic" is fascinating. Politically it may be controversial, but technically it deserves further study. As the world shifts to the nomadic, post-industrial, cloud-based societies, countries like Estonia with e-residency may become popular for people to opt-in to join countries with the best social compact.

Yes it is! And definitely we will see more of these in the future and the challenges they bring to the table.

Said that, it is a bureaucracy nightmare. Just imagine working as a X citizen for a Y enterprise living in the Z country. Globalization at its best!

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#70

Post by yiyus »

coldtea wrote: post #18
johnchristopher wrote: post #5

The article isn't going deep enough in the details. > In summer 2018, Puigneró said Catalonia must create "a digital nation in the form of a republic" ahead of implementing the Catalan Republic in "physical form." By allowing Catalonian citizens or Catalonian administration to host data outside the EU ? How does that create a digital nation when your limbs are all over the world in an ethereal form ? I don't understa…

It's not about where the data are, but which organization is hosting them and for what purpose. If one wanted to make a "digital freedonia" they could start a service called "freedonia citizens registry" for example, and have people register there, coordinate, talk, etc -- whether the server was in Japan or Argentina or California wouldn't matter much for those purposes... The "host outside" part is so that the Spani…

The location is important if it involves data from the public administration. Nobody can avoid that "freedonia citizens registry" you talk about, but the regional government cannot take official census data and use it to fill Fredonia's database.
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