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Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

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Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#61

Post by egypturnash »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #22

I believe it morally justifies downloading Disney+ content via torrents.

Oh come on, “Disney won’t stream their stuff to my niche OS” is not a reason to get their stuff without paying. You can wait for a DVD, you can scrounge a used device that will run their DRM, or you can decide you hate all DRM and boycott their stuff until the unlikely event they offer a copyable version. Lots of people work hard making this shit, and they have bills to pay, these things don’t just spring fully-formed onto a hard drive like Athena from Zeus’ skull. Maybe there’s some morality going on if you buy a ton of merch for what you watch. Maybe.

Or you can reward the companies that do support your niche OS by paying for their stuff, that’s pretty unassailable.

I am far from without sin in this area, but I don’t try to make excuses. Watching stuff without paying its asking price is stealing.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#62

Post by bobbyi_settv »

cloudking wrote: post #10

I'm pretty sure Disney is optimizing for the majority of their audience who use Windows, OSX, iOS etc, not developers/hackers who run desktop Linux. I'm curious about Android though.

Don't the majority of people still watch TV on their TV? I don't care if their service runs on my computer because it's confirmed they will have an app for PS4, which is how I already watch Netflix and Hulu.

I know there are people out there who refuse to run any non-free software anywhere, and it is a good thing they exist, but I would guess that the majority of people who have Linux on their laptop are willing to use a Fire Stick or their TV's builtin OS or whatever to stream TV and movies.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#63

Post by jyrkesh »

jedberg wrote: post #15
Causality1 wrote: post #6

>In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions, but otherwise everything works fine, I don't understand the point of this type of thinking. Video DRM isn't like Denuvo where it can actually get you a few days or even weeks before any pirated versions exist on the web. If it can be watched by a human pirates will copy it, even if they have to rip it straight from the display controller of their mo…

They do this because Hollywood doesn't understand technology. Netflix understands technology and understands this stops no one, but they are licensing the content from Hollywood, who thinks this behavior actually helps. Netflix is forced to play ball with them. Your next question is usually, "Why doesn't the Netflix original content not have these shenanigans then?". The answer is that most Netflix content is still m…

Was waiting for this reply, happy to see it come from the mighty jedberg. For those that don't know, click on his bio, he's definitely 100% spot on here

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#64

Post by Mindwipe »

yumario wrote: post #54
Mindwipe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android depends on the hardware, but generally speaking Western devices support Widevine Level 1 and its implemented in hardware. Desktop Linux will only ever support Level 3. But Chrome on Windows also supports Level 3, and Disney+ works in Chrome, there, so the article isn't correct.

Why do say that Linux will only ever support Level 3? Is there some fundamental limitation?

There's the fundamental limitation that the odds of any maintainer rewriting the entire graphics pipleine to secure the video path from the user for DRM on Linux is roughly zero.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#65

Post by prepend »

egypturnash wrote: post #61
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #22

I believe it morally justifies downloading Disney+ content via torrents.

Oh come on, “Disney won’t stream their stuff to my niche OS” is not a reason to get their stuff without paying. You can wait for a DVD, you can scrounge a used device that will run their DRM, or you can decide you hate all DRM and boycott their stuff until the unlikely event they offer a copyable version. Lots of people work hard making this shit, and they have bills to pay, these things don’t just spring fully-forme…

Niche or not “Disney won’t sell me content I want to buy” seems like a tough position for Disney to argue past.

This was the argument back in the days when movies wouldn’t be released in many countries as the market is too small.

What do you expect potential customers to do? Should they buy new computers? Not watch Disney stuff?

I think I would expect the latter, but if they aren’t Disney’s customer then them pirating isn’t losing Disney any business.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#66

Post by the_pwner224 »

yumario wrote: post #54
Mindwipe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android depends on the hardware, but generally speaking Western devices support Widevine Level 1 and its implemented in hardware. Desktop Linux will only ever support Level 3. But Chrome on Windows also supports Level 3, and Disney+ works in Chrome, there, so the article isn't correct.

Why do say that Linux will only ever support Level 3? Is there some fundamental limitation?

Probably because MS and Apple bend over for producers and put special code in their OS for DRM. You can google for it but here's an example: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wmformat/micr...

This is the same reason that only some Android devices support higher levels of Widevine; Samsung will add code to their OS that allows video/audio to be processed through inaccessible areas of the processor/GPU. If you try to take a screenshot it will just show up as a black screen (same on Windows with the Nextflix app IIRC). Cheapo Chinese Androids and even cheap Androids that you can buy in the US will not do this so they can't play high-res video on Netflix, even if they have a high-res screen.

On Linux this special path is not implemented; anything can see what's going on with the graphics or audio pipeline and record from it.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#67

Post by arthens »

Vaslo wrote: post #30

“First of all, as always my opinions are my own, not those of my employer.” Why do you need to write that? It’s a benign article and more so it’s about as protective as the useless “Store is not responsible for carts that damage your car” signs.

Years ago I ranted on Twitter about Bitium being unreliable. There was no mention of the company I work for on my twitter account, but I had my full name visible. They looked up my name in their database, found my account, and made a phone call to my CTO to ask if there was a problem with their product. The tone of the call was friendly (they didn't try to get me fired or anything), but I still got some heat because my CTO was pissed (until I pointed out that it was a personal account without any work reference). So yeah... I'm not surprised people feel the need to add disclaimers to what they write online.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#68

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

egypturnash wrote: post #61
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #22

I believe it morally justifies downloading Disney+ content via torrents.

Oh come on, “Disney won’t stream their stuff to my niche OS” is not a reason to get their stuff without paying. You can wait for a DVD, you can scrounge a used device that will run their DRM, or you can decide you hate all DRM and boycott their stuff until the unlikely event they offer a copyable version. Lots of people work hard making this shit, and they have bills to pay, these things don’t just spring fully-forme…

Oh. I was going to start my previous message with "I personally don't plan to watch any of their programs", but it would deny me the joy of reading your comment, full of virtue and moral superiority. Thank you.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#69

Post by vkaku »

profmonocle wrote: post #36

> desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions And yet 4K webrips of recent Netflix shows are readily available on torrent sites. I don't understand who these higher levels of DRM are trying to target. They obviously don't stop the serious pirates from ripping and sharing the content with everyone. Yet the lower levels are "good enough…

This ^

DRM is only to create the illusion of security, to deter the average person, not the determined pirate or developer. Once you've sent the content to the client, you've lost all practical ways to avoid these torrents.

Re: Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

#70

Post by tshaddox »

nikanj wrote: post #59
profmonocle wrote: post #36

> desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions And yet 4K webrips of recent Netflix shows are readily available on torrent sites. I don't understand who these higher levels of DRM are trying to target. They obviously don't stop the serious pirates from ripping and sharing the content with everyone. Yet the lower levels are "good enough…

Device manufacturers. Play nice, or we won't grant you the magic pixie dust to play our content in glorious 4k.

To clarify, this isn’t just a cynical comment. It’s actually why digital content producers use DRM. Generally speaking, they’re not idiots, they know it will have little effect on determined pirates and will cause some hassle for some legitimate customers. The point really is so that the digital content producers can maintain control over the providers of computer hardware and distribution channels.

Here’s an old article claiming to be a big revelation, but it’s pretty much common sense and has been fairly well recognized for much longer than that:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-engineer-drm-has-nothin...

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