Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#61

Post by paxys » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

I would still pick a good leader who isn't necessarily a technical expert over Elon Musk's "AI will become self aware and take over the world" schtick.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#62

Post by scarejunba » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

dabeeeenster wrote: post #53

rauchp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point. Who knows what could actually be going behind closed doors in China? A lot of what we hear from China comes from second hand sources. If the Chinese are doing big things, their government seems pretty tight lipped on revealing breakthroughs and their progress (unlike the USSR.) > I wouldn't think USSR was that great at creative thinking, either (on a bigger scale). True, especially in the…

The USSR was the first to reach every major milestone in the race to land on the moon, apart from the final one.

And they did win the race to space, something we often forget.

We underestimate China to our own peril.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#63

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #43

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly, China is mostly imitative and their culture and systems makes it so that they cannot innovate on any scale. Their current accomplishments are built on the basis of theft and when once we fix our security they will fall even further behind than they already are.

It's hard to judge. If you compare China to the old days of USSR - I wouldn't think USSR was that great at creative thinking, either (on a bigger scale). But USSR also maintained multiple closed cities which would contain the smartest people they had in the whole of the union. I am certain if you picked a few people from there they would be of a completely different opinion of what USSR was at the time as well. So I…

USSR had a lot of bright people; mathematicians and people involved in military air and space endeavors come to mind.

I don't like a certain conflation of terms in discussions like these - merging together creative thinking and business. The two things are only vaguely related. To overuse a tired term, inventing a better mousetrap spring != designing a better mousetrap != being able to make that better mousetrap a commercial success. The last part involves a lot of work that isn't creative, and that benefits from business-friendly conditions, which are not necessary for the creative work itself.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#64

Post by bagacrap » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #54

Other comments here incorrectly pointing out that Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China - they do. And why wouldn't they, it's obviously much cheaper to manufacture there given material and labor costs. Obviously they don't manufacture highly sensitive military aircraft in China, but commercial aircraft, sure why not. What they don't do is the design, testing, and certification in China. This is the real IP -…

On the Boeing facility:

"Work at the facility was limited to the plane’s interior, including installing seats and other cabin equipment. More responsibilities will be added over time, such as painting the exterior, but the center is primarily meant for completion and delivery, with the main manufacturing remaining in the US."

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#65

Post by rdlecler1 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #29

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

Yes exactly, China is mostly imitative and their culture and systems makes it so that they cannot innovate on any scale. Their current accomplishments are built on the basis of theft and when once we fix our security they will fall even further behind than they already are.

There’s a lot of IP theft but they can make a lot of progress by simply catching up. Chinese culture is very capitalistic and innovation is not going to be a problem.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#66

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

KoftaBob wrote: post #59

heavenlyblue wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to judge. If you compare China to the old days of USSR - I wouldn't think USSR was that great at creative thinking, either (on a bigger scale). But USSR also maintained multiple closed cities which would contain the smartest people they had in the whole of the union. I am certain if you picked a few people from there they would be of a completely different opinion of what USSR was at the time as well. So I…

USSR had a much stronger engineering apparatus than China does. They beat the US to launching a human in space, then beat them again with the first artificial satellite. Sure they stole nuclear weapons technology from the US/UK teams, but that was more-so a matter of self preservation. I want to emphasize that there are tons of incredibly brilliant minds in China working on amazing things. It's their government syste…

There's also the internal versus external market. Chinese are not stealing IP for the sake of making the same stuff but with cheaper labor. Whether you get the IP by buying or stealing, building something new on top of that IP is still creative innovation, and they do a lot of that. In fact, not respecting western IP with all its associated innovation-stopping practices lets them iterate at a pace not seen in the West.

See e.g. some of the stuff Bunnie wrote here: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=20, starting with: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#67

Post by h3throw » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #32

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

Wow, these are some seriously racist comments.

China, the country != Chinese (Asian?), the race

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#68

Post by asdadasdsdfdsf » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

"...Ma has an absolutely minuscule understanding of the AI landscape." Has anyone defined consciousness yet?

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#69

Post by dv_dt » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #29

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

Yes exactly, China is mostly imitative and their culture and systems makes it so that they cannot innovate on any scale. Their current accomplishments are built on the basis of theft and when once we fix our security they will fall even further behind than they already are.

This is really similar to criticisms of Taiwan and Japan as they climbed up the tech advancement scale. Both of them now have for example in one HN related field, silicon foundries that rival the best of what's in the US. In terms of scale, China probably has far more PV capacity than the US (not sure where it sits relative to Japan).

I think it's an odd mix of self superiority/discrimination that actually lets the US sit back too relaxed and not competing on difficult and often costly, but fundamental investments (not just in silicon, but other industrial areas too). And too often there is too little coercion needed for US companies when they do make investments, siting manufacturing capacity in other nations while chasing lowest cost labor.

Re: Airbus hit by series of cyber attacks on suppliers

#70

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #32

KoftaBob wrote: post #23

Interesting how Boeing and Airbus don't manufacture in China, and coincidentally China hasn't been able to produce any viable competitor to those products. Goes to show that without easy access to product blueprints/IP at the factories, China is very slow to actually innovate on their own. Hence why I feel the "China will outpace everyone in tech and take over the world" is super overblown. Even their university cult…

Wow, these are some seriously racist comments.

Not only the comment is about a particular nation of people, "race" is essentially an Americanism at this point, and it's tiring to see attempts at coerce everything into a "race" problem.