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Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

abc.net.au

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Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#61

Post by glloydell »

matz1 wrote: post #50
glloydell wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's absolutely vital to have the responsibility in the hands of do have problems with "pushing the kill button", and then provide them with psychological support services to handle that duty. Giving people with no qualms or moral struggles with taking human life the tools to do so on a massive scale is an absolutely terrifying idea.

Well, it depends on what the main objective of the job is. If it to kill someone then do you really want to give it to someone that have moral struggle?

I'd argue that the main objective of the job is to achieve the strategic objectives of the country engaged in armed conflict. Indiscriminate killing completely devoid of a moral or ethical framework definitely does not accomplish that objective.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#62

Post by ClumsyPilot »

harimau777 wrote: post #37
devoply wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how brainwashed most Americans are about this conflict, we might as well as be living in 1984's world. Have you heard the ancient saying one man's freedom fighter, another man's terrorist? What would happen if no terrorists had been trained by the US (and their Islamic puppet that wags the dog, Saudi Arabia)? The Soviet Union would have fallen and Afghanistan would be a normal country like its neighbors. >…

Nothing in your post contradicts what I said. I'm arguing that the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is whether they target civilians. So when fighting the Soviets or later the US, the Taliban where not terrorists; although that doesn't necessarily mean that they were good people.

So if an armed organisation in Afganistan targets exclusively American troops, they will not be considered terrorists and we will be letting them into bars in France?

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#63

Post by PhasmaFelis »

golergka wrote: post #7
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

The other day a drone in Afghanistan killed 30 civilians. Rather than being ISIS members holding a meeting, they were pine nut farmers gathering around a fire to relax after their day's work. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones... I don't really give a fuck about the psychological condition of the drone pilots except insofar as it puts their children at risk. They and their commanders should…

Then you really lack perspective on what any warfare is: it's always critical, life or death decisions that have to be taken without sufficient information. US civilian to combatant casualty ratio in the recent conflicts have been significantly better than any other modern wars as well. So, what do you suggest instead?

If another nation's military had accidentally murdered 30 American civilians because they didn't wait for sufficient information, you'd be crying out for blood.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#64

Post by glloydell »

glogla wrote: post #49
glloydell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment strikes me as textbook dehumanization of the drone pilots. "Dehumanizing the enemy involves denying the enemy’s humanity by negating in the enemy the characteristics normally associated with human beings, such as morality and compassion, and instead associating the enemy with acts of evil and depravity that merit forceful action and retaliation." https://sk.sagepub.com/reference/the-sage-encyclopedia-of-…

Have the drone pilots not thrown their humanity away willingly? I think there's s difference between doubting humanity of someone because of skin color or sexual orientation or natinality or whatever, and someone who voluntarily became a murderer as a day job. The pilots can stop killing people any day. They continually chose not to.

Do you believe that there is ever a justification for taking human life?

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#65

Post by ClumsyPilot »

matz1 wrote: post #24
tehjoker wrote: post #5

Love how the perspective of this argument is that instead of drone pilots succumbing to a real sense that what they are doing is unjustifiable, this guy is an "ethicist" that is attempting to say that we need to find a way to train morality out of people so they can push remote kill buttons and feel fine.

Or just hire people who has different moral values. Is it so difficult to find? I personally don't have the problem pushing the kill button.

You say you would find it easy to kill (concerning), but have you been in a similar situation? Have you at least killed a large animal?

I've killed a rat with my own hands, I felt bad even though I never thought I would. It's different when you hear it squeak and bleed, then die in convulsions. I can't see myself killing a goat, let alone a person, unless I am fighting for my life.

A purely speculative opinion of how you would feel is of little value.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#66

Post by brokenmachine »

glloydell wrote: post #36
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

The other day a drone in Afghanistan killed 30 civilians. Rather than being ISIS members holding a meeting, they were pine nut farmers gathering around a fire to relax after their day's work. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones... I don't really give a fuck about the psychological condition of the drone pilots except insofar as it puts their children at risk. They and their commanders should…

Your comment strikes me as textbook dehumanization of the drone pilots. "Dehumanizing the enemy involves denying the enemy’s humanity by negating in the enemy the characteristics normally associated with human beings, such as morality and compassion, and instead associating the enemy with acts of evil and depravity that merit forceful action and retaliation." https://sk.sagepub.com/reference/the-sage-encyclopedia-of-…

Please imagine an Afghani drone killing 30 civilians in Washington.

Then think again about who is dehumanizing who.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#67

Post by matz1 »

glloydell wrote: post #61
matz1 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it depends on what the main objective of the job is. If it to kill someone then do you really want to give it to someone that have moral struggle?

I'd argue that the main objective of the job is to achieve the strategic objectives of the country engaged in armed conflict. Indiscriminate killing completely devoid of a moral or ethical framework definitely does not accomplish that objective.

Thats more of a higher level objective and sometimes to achieve that objective, killing people is required.

Yes Indiscriminate killing is a problem but that is a different problem. The article is in regards of actual pushing the button, I'm assuming the killing is already decided after careful judgement .

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#68

Post by drtillberg »

> ... if a UAV campaign is part of a war that has a justified cause, the use of force is necessary and proportionate to the threat posed by the enemy, the UAV pilot's actions can be seen as potentially justified.

Maybe part of the problem is that the drone killings are occurring in a nontraditional conflict with no formal declaration of war and remote or conjectural threats to the territory of the United States....

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#69

Post by matz1 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #65
matz1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just hire people who has different moral values. Is it so difficult to find? I personally don't have the problem pushing the kill button.

You say you would find it easy to kill (concerning), but have you been in a similar situation? Have you at least killed a large animal? I've killed a rat with my own hands, I felt bad even though I never thought I would. It's different when you hear it squeak and bleed, then die in convulsions. I can't see myself killing a goat, let alone a person, unless I am fighting for my life. A purely speculative opinion of how…

I haven't because I haven't had the opportunity presented. Does a lamb count ? Yes it die squeak and bleed, then die in convulsions. A lot of people like a farmer do this a lot on daily basis, its not that a big a deal.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#70

Post by hackeer »

mieseratte wrote: post #30
hackeer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting people from a drone is definitely not a life or death decision. And doing it just because they look like criminals is not a casualty of war, it's outright murder. Any cop would be in death row for pulling something like this in American Soil.

> Any cop would be in death row for pulling something like this in American Soil. That’s a dubious claim.

I meant to say He would be granted a paid leave.
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