Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

thelocal.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 248 posts

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#61

Post by skissane »

EpicEng wrote: post #53
skybrian wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's not like they were wrong about that. I don't know what to conclude from this other than most of history is terrible and the present often isn't so great either. Until we live in a utopia, there will be no shortage of targets for whataboutism.

The point is that it's nothing but a deflection tactic, and I don't believe the people doing the lynching were typically the same people concerned about human rights abuses in the USSR. It's an oversimplification used to prevent discussion about real problems.

I think there is a valid point to it – there is a certain degree of hypocrisy in criticising other country's human rights problems when you aren't doing enough to resolve your own country's human rights problems. Calling it "Whataboutism" seems to excuse that hypocrisy rather than giving it the condemnation it deserves.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#62

Post by rayiner »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #57
rayiner wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if consumption capacity was equal in Europe, that consumption would shift to something else, such as food and entertainment. People in New York City don’t consume less because they don’t own a car—they spend more money eating out, etc. And Europeans are hardly ascetics. It’s fair to assume that in both places, if people had more means to consume they would.

> It’s fair to assume that in both places, if people had more means to consume they would. Not the parent commenter but why do you think they would if they could? Consumption habits across borders aren't as obvious to me because of advertising, culture, etc.

Consumption habits don’t vary that much in the developed world. The household savings rate is 5-10% in most countries, with the US being lower than famously frugal Germany, but higher than Italy or Spain: https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/916lqg-house.... (Switzerland and Luxembourg being heavily financialized countries seem to be outliers.)

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#63

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

skissane wrote: post #61
EpicEng wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that it's nothing but a deflection tactic, and I don't believe the people doing the lynching were typically the same people concerned about human rights abuses in the USSR. It's an oversimplification used to prevent discussion about real problems.

I think there is a valid point to it – there is a certain degree of hypocrisy in criticising other country's human rights problems when you aren't doing enough to resolve your own country's human rights problems. Calling it "Whataboutism" seems to excuse that hypocrisy rather than giving it the condemnation it deserves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#64

Post by Cyph0n »

rayiner wrote: post #58
dillonmckay wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and affordable highspeed internet.

France has much slower internet on average than the US: https://www.akamai.com/de/de/multimedia/documents/state-of-t... It’s almost as if it’s part of a pattern, where the top 75% in the US do better than France, while the stronger French safety net is better for the bottom 25%.

How did you get from "slower internet" to "there is a pattern"?

If you scroll two comments up, you'll see the most crucial difference: free healthcare. Healthcare-related expenses can bankrupt an entire family in the US, even with great health insurance...

Then there is free education, but let's leave that aside for now.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#65

Post by philwelch »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #35
hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the 20% poorest in the US has it better than the average EU middle class. Ref: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20...

The second decile in the US had in 2017 a wealth of $4798 (-962 for the first decile), while in France in 2015 the second decile had E12900, E4300 for the first decile. And, you know, access to health care :-)

France is above the EU average. Probably more comparable to a large, above-average US state.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#66

Post by lacampbell »

rayiner wrote: post #55
soperj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

Homelessness rates in the US are lower than many big European countries: https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pd... Lower than France, Germany, and the UK, Sweden, Canada, and Australia. Equal to the Netherlands.

Interesting fact, but not sure what Canada or Australia are doing in that list. Maybe they're in Eurovision?

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#67

Post by skissane »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #63
skissane wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a valid point to it – there is a certain degree of hypocrisy in criticising other country's human rights problems when you aren't doing enough to resolve your own country's human rights problems. Calling it "Whataboutism" seems to excuse that hypocrisy rather than giving it the condemnation it deserves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

I'm not defending the Soviet Union, which was truly a horrible regime.

What I'm saying, is the proper response to a criticism of lynching, is to agree with the criticism, not argue that the crimes (no matter how horrid) of those who are making the criticism renders the criticism invalid.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#69

Post by rayiner »

wavefunction wrote: post #56
hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the 20% poorest in the US has it better than the average EU middle class. Ref: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20...

Texas has literal shanty towns with 100,000 American citizens living there so I think this is a situation where statistics (or the ones presented) are highly inaccurate or deeply mischaracterized: https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+colonias&sxsrf=ACYBGNT...

The Texas colonias are inhabited by people who crossed into the US from Mexico. There are many Americans citizens there because everyone born in the US is automatically a citizen. But their standard of living says nothing about the accuracy of the statistics addressing the standard of living at the 20th percentile. (That’s 60 million people from the bottom.)

That’s not to say we shouldn’t “do something” about their living condition, just that your post is a non-sequitor. When Sweden accepted hundreds of thousands of refugees, the median income of the country almost certainly went down. But that doesn’t mean everyone became poorer.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#70

Post by EpicEng »

skissane wrote: post #67
fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

I'm not defending the Soviet Union, which was truly a horrible regime. What I'm saying, is the proper response to a criticism of lynching, is to agree with the criticism, not argue that the crimes (no matter how horrid) of those who are making the criticism renders the criticism invalid.

Agreed. You're right, it is hypocritical. There was fierce fighting between two sides of the civil rights issue during that time though. We weren't doing enough, but many people were trying.
Post reply on HN