For cities it would make sense to deliver packages to neighborhood hubs in vans and from there deliver them using cargo bikes to the recipients. That would probably safe more energy, but cost a bit more as a bicycle worker can transport fewer packages per day.
Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
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Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#62we can't "electric van" our way out of the climate crisis because it makes too little of a dent over too long of a timescale. bezos' plan is far too weak to even be worth media coverage. mediocre quarter-measure plans like this one will keep us moving at full steam towards catastrophe. if bezos wanted to put a dent in climate change genuinely, he'd take the path of least resistance: subsidize a meaty discount on good…
He also stated the goal is to be carbon neutral by 2040, that's a solid goal. So it goes beyond the vans.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#63Where I live UPS trucks have been plug-in hybrid for years now. They are powered entirely by battery when driving slowly through neighborhoods. So I'm not sure how much difference this would _really_ make.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#64What about the strain on the environment from sourcing and disposing batteries for these vans?
Because dirty diesel has no ill effects?
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#65I'm glad to see that there's deliberate movement in this direction. However, it's a little dismaying that the headline is implying that we can address climate change by Consuming More Stuff; that's how we got into this mess in the first place.
Some consumption is good, i.e. replacing and old appliance or a car with a more efficient one, or you can buy a video game on Steam rather than driving to a picnic. It is not always apparent what behaviour is the most energy-wasteful. For example airplanes emit tons of CO2, but if the same 300 people in a plane drove the same distance it could be much worse. Advanced economies have grown their GDPs, but have also red…
> Advanced economies have grown their GDPs, but have also reduced their emissions since about 1990.
Isn't there an element of offloading their emissions to the 'less advanced' economies who make all of the new energy efficient nuggets?
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does this cause more stuff to be consumed?
I think it's because the environmental cost of making a brand new electric van has a higher environmental cost than just driving the van you already have until it dies. Basically the world would be better off if people stopped buying new vehicles tomorrow completely, and just drove whatever they have, no matter how polluting it is - it's still better on the planet than making a new one. Of course our economy doesn't…
I think this argument is more true for personal vehicles that sit idle for 99% of the time -- they don't consume gas when they don't move.
For commercial vehicle that spend most of their life on the road, energy savings from running a more efficient vehicle recoup the energy used in making that vehicle pretty quickly.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For example airplanes emit tons of CO2, but if the same 300 people in a plane drove the same distance it could be much worse. Technically true, however airplanes provoke a rebound effect. By making travel so efficient and fast, it makes people travel more. If airplanes didn't exist all people would simply travel less, not drive more.
And not to be pedantic, but when the above poster said "or you can buy a video game on Steam rather than driving to a picnic", that discounts the amount of times the game developers had to drive to work to create said game. As well, replacing an old appliance or car isn't a straight-forward net savings, you need to take into account the materials harvested and factories that need to be built to produce those new item…
The average game on Steam sells 32000 copies. It takes some seriously poluting developer to offset the picnic of thousands of people.
Also (pedantic but you started it), the society we currently live in is based around work. So if games weren't being developed it is more likely the developers would still travel to work.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some consumption is good, i.e. replacing and old appliance or a car with a more efficient one, or you can buy a video game on Steam rather than driving to a picnic. It is not always apparent what behaviour is the most energy-wasteful. For example airplanes emit tons of CO2, but if the same 300 people in a plane drove the same distance it could be much worse. Advanced economies have grown their GDPs, but have also red…
> Some consumption is good, i.e. replacing and old appliance or a car with a more efficient one Isn't buying a used (ICE) car better for the environment than a new EV one?
Counterfactual reasoning can be tricky. We do want electric vehicles to be manufactured instead of other kinds of vehicles, and they won't be if nobody buys them. So, maybe you're doing your bit to make sure they're successful, versus less efficient vehicles? If you buy used then you're accepting other people's decisions about which new cars should be successful.
On the other hand, maybe you're thinking the total number of cars to be manufactured should go down, and this will happen if people stop buying them.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#69I'm glad to see that there's deliberate movement in this direction. However, it's a little dismaying that the headline is implying that we can address climate change by Consuming More Stuff; that's how we got into this mess in the first place.
> headline is implying that we can address climate change by Consuming More Stuff; that's how we got into this mess in the first place.
It definitely possible to address climate change by "Consuming Different Stuff" if that different stuff is produced (and transported) in ways that emit less carbon.
Re: Jeff Bezos climate change plan unveiled – buy 100k electric vans.
#70>delivery vans from vehicle manufacturer Rivian is Rivian really a vehicle manufacturer? or a startup? I though you have to actually manufacture something to be called manufacturer.
They already have their Truck and SUV on display at the motor shows, 0-60 in 3 seconds, towing 7700 lbs, 700hp, 400 mile range. They said shipping in 2020. But I dont see any mention of vans on their website.
Amazon is a financial backer of Rivian, so this makes sense.