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Creeping normality

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Re: Creeping normality

#61

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

bibyte wrote: post #52
Aeolun wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was amazed when seeing this in India. Until I learned that a phone plan with unlimited data costs the equivalent of $3 a month there. Suddenly it becomes like the best investment ever. Even if you have nothing else, you can still be connected to the internet and all it’s joys.

What ? The cheapest flat LCD TV plus cable service costs about 100 dollars. And the monthly subscription is about another 2 dollars. That's not enough to buy the cheapest smart phone. People in India certainly can afford that. In fact many teenagers these days buy $250-300 (average) smart phones. Also keep in mind I am talking about rural India.

This is what I don't get. If the median income is about ~$1600, how does almost everyone have a $200 phone?

If you assume a phone gets replaced every 3 years -- with service -- that's about $110 per year, or close to 7% of a person's total income.

In the US, median income is ~$32k -- $26k after taxes. If you make the same assumptions, a phone would cost about $580, or close to ~2% of a person's total income.

So it seems like not so big of a deal, especially for something so valuable.

But the teen part is what piqued my interest. India is MUCH younger than the US. Women participate in the workforce at a MUCH lower rate. And household size is MUCH larger. If you factor all of those things together, it means that for like 60% of families with children, you have a single earner with a spouse and 2.9 children. If everyone's got a phone, that's more than 40% of your household income. THAT seems insane.

Re: Creeping normality

#62

Post by ssivark »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #56
meuk wrote: post #41

This is also why it's useful to hire new people once in a while and pay attention to what they think . A new, junior hire will note many of the same things as an expensive consultany. With the difference that people actually listen to the observations of the consultant , while they expect the junior dev to get used to things.

+9000 I'm "using" our interns for this. First task is to create a document where they're supposed to write down everything that seems odd, overly complicated or broken. Even though they're sometimes in their third semester only, this pretty much always brings up something that can be improved on the spot without refactoring a dozen components. But also for all the things that were actually just a case of the intern b…

> But also for all the things that were actually just a case of the intern being inexperienced or too naive it's great for them to go back to this document after three months and see how their understanding changed over time.

Seems like a fantastic exercise, with benefits both ways. In hindsight, this seems so simple and powerful that I wonder whether it's a commonly accepted onboarding exercise for new team members, especially junior ones. If not, it probably should become.

Re: Creeping normality

#63

Post by ssivark »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #61
bibyte wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ? The cheapest flat LCD TV plus cable service costs about 100 dollars. And the monthly subscription is about another 2 dollars. That's not enough to buy the cheapest smart phone. People in India certainly can afford that. In fact many teenagers these days buy $250-300 (average) smart phones. Also keep in mind I am talking about rural India.

This is what I don't get. If the median income is about ~$1600, how does almost everyone have a $200 phone? If you assume a phone gets replaced every 3 years -- with service -- that's about $110 per year, or close to 7% of a person's total income. In the US, median income is ~$32k -- $26k after taxes. If you make the same assumptions, a phone would cost about $580, or close to ~2% of a person's total income. So it se…

In Indian cities, for a lot of people involved in the service industry, being in touch with their clientele through phone (often WhatsApp) is a fantastic boon that increases earnings. They don't need the latest and greatest phone, but a smartphone with a data plan is almost surely worth it.

On the topic of teens affording smartphones, either they come from relatively well to do families so their parents can spare the money, or they're older and make some money on the side by running errands, etc.

Re: Creeping normality

#64

Post by bibyte »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #61
bibyte wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ? The cheapest flat LCD TV plus cable service costs about 100 dollars. And the monthly subscription is about another 2 dollars. That's not enough to buy the cheapest smart phone. People in India certainly can afford that. In fact many teenagers these days buy $250-300 (average) smart phones. Also keep in mind I am talking about rural India.

This is what I don't get. If the median income is about ~$1600, how does almost everyone have a $200 phone? If you assume a phone gets replaced every 3 years -- with service -- that's about $110 per year, or close to 7% of a person's total income. In the US, median income is ~$32k -- $26k after taxes. If you make the same assumptions, a phone would cost about $580, or close to ~2% of a person's total income. So it se…

Statistics are useful but they don't always show accurate information. India is one of the most diverse country in the world. Hell even the states are like little countries living together. I am an Indian but even I can't make assumption like that about another state.

But still I don't think everyone replaces their phones in just 3 years. The younger generation does that (they replace their phones even faster). But the older generation who use a smart phone like a phone keeps their phones for lot more then 5 years.

And these days due to population control awareness most couples limit themselves to only 2 children.

Re: Creeping normality

#65

Post by firethief »

jchanimal wrote: post #57
nabla9 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking in the public places was just few decades ago, very common and it seemed like impossible to move. Now even thinking about going back is absurd idea. Today people defend 'basically harmless stuff like: 1. Force physical mutilation of children crazy reasons is OK if there is not much physical harm. Circumcision of boys is seen as OK in countries where it's common and normal. Others can see it as crazy cultural…

Driving cars in the city is the new smoking. Our grandkids will look at this time as barbaric.

*Internal combustion cars. Electric cars enable us to avoid polluting the cities by burning coal somewhere unimportant.

Re: Creeping normality

#66

Post by firethief »

juliansoto wrote: post #17
akeck wrote: post #15

For example, the creeping normality of using employee burnout to finish AAA games.

Or the creeping normality of focusing on game devs crunch when there are other project based jobs with close deadlines as well

Yeah, why would we talk about game dev when there are other unspecified examples we could be talking about? Shame on us.

Re: Creeping normality

#67

Post by firethief »

darth_skywalker wrote: post #27
jeremyperson wrote: post #26

This reminds me of the frog in the pot/pan concept. Note: the frog did not get hurt so watch until the end without worrying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpsLZDgFK4

It's an interesting concept, but the "frog in the pan" fable has no scientific merit. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_a...

It doesn't have to work on a literal level. It's a fable, not a recipe.

Re: Creeping normality

#68

Post by jchanimal »

firethief wrote: post #65
jchanimal wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving cars in the city is the new smoking. Our grandkids will look at this time as barbaric.

*Internal combustion cars. Electric cars enable us to avoid polluting the cities by burning coal somewhere unimportant.

My take is it’s more about killing pedestrians than polluting.

Re: Creeping normality

#69

Post by Thiez »

Fnoord wrote: post #47
nabla9 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking in the public places was just few decades ago, very common and it seemed like impossible to move. Now even thinking about going back is absurd idea. Today people defend 'basically harmless stuff like: 1. Force physical mutilation of children crazy reasons is OK if there is not much physical harm. Circumcision of boys is seen as OK in countries where it's common and normal. Others can see it as crazy cultural…

> Today people defend 'basically harmless stuff like: I'm sure there are people (where n > 1) in the world who defend that, but here in The Netherlands this is not OK except for Jewish boy circumcision. Which is in a different league than the removal of the clitoris. Physical punishment of children went from 'normal' before 1970 to 'not acceptable' throughout 1980 and 1990. It is now 'very much not acceptable'. In fa…

Not all female circumcision involves removing the clitorus. It varies, and the least harmful forms involve only a symbolic pin prick. While I strongly oppose all forms of circumcision on babies and children (unless a good medical reason is involved), I think the lightest form of female circumcision is essentiallu much less barbaric than male circumcision. If people practicing female circumcision could be convinced to switch to the lighter forms (perhaps through creeping normality?) that would already be a great improvement, and a good step towards eventually stopping the practice completely.

It would be more consistent if male circumcision was treated with the same condemnation that all forms of female circumcision (or 'FGM') seem to receive. Currently the western world criticising female circumcision seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

Re: Creeping normality

#70

Post by Animats »

techer wrote: post #44
Animats wrote: post #36

Flooding in Miami and Venice.

“In late November of 1968, I spent a few days in a hotel just off the Piazza San Marco in Venice. At 6 one morning, hearing the loud warning bells, I jumped out of bed, grabbed my camera and rushed to see the famous Venetian flood. I stood in the empty and as yet dry Piazza and looked out toward the Gulf, for I expected the flood tides to come in from the open water. Many minutes passed before to see that the Piazza…

Yes, Venice has had flooding since at least 1900. But now it's 60 times a year.[1]

[1] https://theconversation.com/venice-flooding-is-getting-worse...

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