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Apple Is Listening

marco.org

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Re: Apple Is Listening

#61

Post by Barrin92 »

scarface74 wrote: post #56
Barrin92 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the OP was saying that he doesn't deserve his money, but it really is absolutely absurd. Apple is an international company, worth a trillion dollars selling millions of devices. I work in the UK. I make about 80k a year pre-taxes. That's an average, if not relatively high salary for a developer. "Regular old enterprise developers" don't make 5000 bucks in two weeks, at least not in 99% of the developed…

But if my parents - a teacher and a factory worker could afford it in 1992, are you really saying that a developer couldn’t? I live in Atlanta - almost as far from the west coast of the US that you can get and salaries are much lower than the west coast. They pay developers with 3-5 years of experience $65/hour on a 1099 (Corp to Corp) basis. Since this would be a tax deductible company expense, that would be less th…

I mean I could technically afford it in the sense that I have enough money in the bank, but it's simply not justifiable. In 1992 hardware was expensive but the competition was fairly limited and Apple, even as recently as say 6-7 years ago with the iphone and macbook pro produced products were the premium was actually worth it.

But now? I can buy a 1.5k desktop machine, throw linux and windows on it and I am a perfectly happy camper (and very happer developer). I can buy a 400$ phone and I hardly notice any difference in quality. I don't see, in the context of alternatives, why apple is seemingly raising prices at will and that makes me feel duped, regardless of what I earn.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#62

Post by scarface74 »

overgard wrote: post #59
scarface74 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not for you. The market that it is for are chomping at the bit to buy one. But as far as it’s “garish appearance”, that’s exactly what Pro’s were asking for something that didn’t put form over function.

Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), who has been willing to buy their computers in the past, and none of what they sell holds any appeal. It’s either ridiculously priced (Mac Pro), shoddy (MacBook) or not very modifiable (iMac) “The market” that it’s for (“creatives”) is saying things like “why ca…

You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?

Re: Apple Is Listening

#63

Post by scarface74 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #61
scarface74 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if my parents - a teacher and a factory worker could afford it in 1992, are you really saying that a developer couldn’t? I live in Atlanta - almost as far from the west coast of the US that you can get and salaries are much lower than the west coast. They pay developers with 3-5 years of experience $65/hour on a 1099 (Corp to Corp) basis. Since this would be a tax deductible company expense, that would be less th…

I mean I could technically afford it in the sense that I have enough money in the bank, but it's simply not justifiable. In 1992 hardware was expensive but the competition was fairly limited and Apple, even as recently as say 6-7 years ago with the iphone and macbook pro produced products were the premium was actually worth it. But now? I can buy a 1.5k desktop machine, throw linux and windows on it and I am a perfec…

And if all you need is the power of a $1500 PC, you aren’t the target market for the Mac Pro. Apple has plenty other Macs that would meet your needs.

If you can’t “justify” the need for a Mac Pro - (and neither can I) you aren’t the target market.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#64

Post by BackBackBack »

scarface74 wrote: post #57
BackBackBack wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole issue. There should be a mac between the mac mini and mac pro as right now they are only addressing the extremes. And it should not be one with a screen attached to it and no expansion.

And a fully deck out Mac Mini wouldn’t suit the needs of an average self employed developer? What expansion do you need that you couldn’t do externally on an iMac if you have “modest means” and so assume modest requirements?

Mac mini has no expansion and is very thermally constrained. If you are a web developer and never do anything else it might be fine, but there are many kinds of developers, and some need custom hardware, custom PCI cards, multiple network adapters, normal consumer grade GPUs not on an external bus. In short, not the most extreme processing power but customization options. To be able to change hardware without throwing away the whole machine.

Anyway, I love how Apple has convinced everybody that a ~$3000-$4000 machine cannot be pro and is not worthy of their engineering prowess because only modest, unsuccessful developers would spend such a small amount in a computer.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#65

Post by scarface74 »

kjhughes wrote: post #60
scarface74 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No normal non pro computer is a substantial improvement since 2013. Computers have been "good enough" for awhile.

I'm neither interested in nor discussing here "normal non pro computer[s]". It was you who suggested a "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" to me. I merely explained why it doesn't, IMO, demonstrate that Apple is Listening.

Because Intel hasn’t created a consumer processor that is significantly faster than what they did in 2013 that means Apple isn’t listening? What hardware (besides a reliable keyboard) could Apple ship in a laptop in 2019 that would make it a worthy upgrade?

Re: Apple Is Listening

#66

Post by overgard »

scarface74 wrote: post #62
overgard wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), who has been willing to buy their computers in the past, and none of what they sell holds any appeal. It’s either ridiculously priced (Mac Pro), shoddy (MacBook) or not very modifiable (iMac) “The market” that it’s for (“creatives”) is saying things like “why ca…

You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?

Yes, I can easily get a computer for 4K that rivals a Mac Pro. I think like 4 years ago my employer let me spec out the computer I bought for 4K and I built a 20 core Xeon monstrosity with 32gb of ram, 3 monitors, and like a $700 Nvidia card. 4 years ago!

If apple was listening to their customers they’d offer a customisable desktop tower in the 2-5k range people are willing to pay. As much as I like the iMacs display I’m using it with a Wacom cintiq so having a built in screen is a waste for me. I just want a computer that can be opened and upgraded, runs macOS, and doesn’t require a loan.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#67

Post by nixgeek »

Barrin92 wrote: post #48
scarface74 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community... "That might work for Marco". Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million. But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapap…

I don't think the OP was saying that he doesn't deserve his money, but it really is absolutely absurd. Apple is an international company, worth a trillion dollars selling millions of devices. I work in the UK. I make about 80k a year pre-taxes. That's an average, if not relatively high salary for a developer. "Regular old enterprise developers" don't make 5000 bucks in two weeks, at least not in 99% of the developed…

$5k in two weeks is $130k a year, you make ~$104k a year with some currency conversion. They’re not incredibly far apart.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#68

Post by scarface74 »

BackBackBack wrote: post #64
scarface74 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a fully deck out Mac Mini wouldn’t suit the needs of an average self employed developer? What expansion do you need that you couldn’t do externally on an iMac if you have “modest means” and so assume modest requirements?

Mac mini has no expansion and is very thermally constrained. If you are a web developer and never do anything else it might be fine, but there are many kinds of developers, and some need custom hardware, custom PCI cards, multiple network adapters, normal consumer grade GPUs not on an external bus. In short, not the most extreme processing power but customization options. To be able to change hardware without throwin…

So in your personal case - a $4000 iMac wouldn’t meet your needs? The performance difference between an external GPU would be a deal breaker?

Re: Apple Is Listening

#69

Post by jarjoura »

I think Apple released this Mac Pro & Display at the wrong event. From every indication, it was designed for Hollywood. Developers don't need expansion, but Audio and Video producers do! Announcing at an LA event for producers and artists would have cleared any confusion.

It wasn't designed for AI or ML either, because Apple is having a war with NVidia now, probably over component pricing, but who knows.

Developers didn't ask for this machine or a $6k reference monitor. They just wanted something they can swap out the video cards or memory or hard drives occasionally as time goes on. They wanted a nice display that gave them 200% scaling and proper color correction in a matching aluminum body.

Whether I can afford this machine or not at home is beside the point. It's just that after the keynote high wore off, and we returned to reality, it's clear Apple revealed the machine at the wrong event.

Re: Apple Is Listening

#70

Post by scarface74 »

overgard wrote: post #66
scarface74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?

Yes, I can easily get a computer for 4K that rivals a Mac Pro. I think like 4 years ago my employer let me spec out the computer I bought for 4K and I built a 20 core Xeon monstrosity with 32gb of ram, 3 monitors, and like a $700 Nvidia card. 4 years ago! If apple was listening to their customers they’d offer a customisable desktop tower in the 2-5k range people are willing to pay. As much as I like the iMacs display…

Including the monitor? But $1000 cheaper is a far cry from “$8000 cheaper”. You don’t have to buy the monitor by the way....
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