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A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

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Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#61

Post by zwkrt »

calewis wrote: post #47
klipt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> closer to $100 or $150 if in a major city If therapy is just talking, surely there must be options for cheaply video chatting a therapist in a state with lower cost of living?

In my experience, you need to be there face to face. I can't explain it, but it's all the nuances and the uncomfortable silences. I was seeing my therapist for a while via Skype, even though he lives a few miles up the road. I now make the effort and see him face to face. It's so much better. But, like anything, what works for you.

There's something about physical communication that can't be replicated. You see the posture, the gears turning, immmediate reactions. You can't formulate what to say, you say whatever is at the forefront of your thought.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#62

Post by frosted-flakes »

borkt wrote: post #49
yboris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing. Sincerely curious what you mean by "A bit of money". I'm lucky that I didn't have to have therapy. My guess is unless your insurance/job covers mental health, it's at least $50/hour (closer to $100 or $150 if in a major city). Surely not much for the possible benefits (and on a developer salary), but I'm wondering how expensive such services are.

AFOAF went through a tough time basically between the end of high school and a year out of college. Family stuff that was so hard to emotionally grasp and make sense of it absolutely paralyzed her. She went through many different forms of therapy; from affordable counselors, to a professor at her college (don't try that, they usually just want you to pay to be in a study), to a relatively average psychologist (~150/h…

AFOAF = A friend of a friend?

That's a rather obscure acronym.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#63

Post by DoreenMichele »

charleyramm wrote: post #13
calewis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who suffers from depression and has gone to therapy for over 5 years (I am also on medication), please try and force yourself to go. It will most likely change your life for the better, if not, what have you wasted? A bit of money and a few hours of your time? It could make you better at dealing with your depression and, as a consequence, make you feel happier. You might need to try a few different therapi…

Do you think it was necessary to go through this process with a therapist, or could a less expensive alternative have had the same effect?

A therapist can be a useful tool. I spent a total of about 3.5 years of my life in therapy.

I also briefly was in couple's counseling and my husband was seeing a therapist as well during that time. He was extremely introverted and he truly hated discussing private matters with a therapist.

One day I told him "I don't care if you see a therapist. I just want our marriage to get better. Therapy is just a means to an end. That's it."

He happily quit therapy and couple's counseling promptly. He also promptly was a better husband to me and never fell down on the implied promise that he would rise to the occasion somehow.

I continued with therapy because I had a lot to sort out and I saw it as a useful tool.

In the long run, learning how to live well was the best therapy for me, so to speak. But I didn't personally know how to get there without first talking to someone about bad things that had happened to me and how they shaped me. My husband didn't want to go through that step and he was somehow able to just behave different towards me once I made it clear "I just want a better marriage. That's it. I don't actually care if you go to therapy."

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#64

Post by calewis »

gfmio wrote: post #56
calewis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you can get therapy on the NHS, but it's mostly CBT and not for any extended period. Psychotherapy, which is what is what most people need with long term mental health issues (like myself) is mostly private. You can pay anything from £50-150 p.h In the US, I'm not sure.

The NHS also offers a range of other talking therapies /counselling, e.g. counselling for depression. The waiting times here can be shorter than for CBT. If you're in dire need for help (depends on your scores and initial phone interview), you will be seen or referred quickly (within less than a month). Any GP will refer you. If you need help with your mental health, just ask your GP for a referral, fill out the form…

I think most people who suffer from actual depression, not a just a bout of sadness need long term treatment. The NHS is poorly provisioned in this way, sadly. Just like a diabetic who needs insulin everyday people with serious psychological conditions need regular treatment. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, I don't know how I would cope if I couldn't.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#65

Post by Pamar »

specialist wrote: post #59
Pamar wrote: post #9

I would like to link to a my old post here regarding this very topic (even if the original comment was about something else): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13498424#13498462

That's worth a repost. Jodorowsky, suffering, identity. Just from your summary, that sounds spot on. Added to my reading list. Thanks.

Unfortunately I cannot confirm the original title: I am 1000km from my library. But Jodorowsky often offers valuable insights.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#66

Post by DoreenMichele »

The research also leaves unanswered a big question for the future: just how is psychotherapy enacting these personality trait changes?

A large part of "personality" is about social interaction. If you have always been treated terribly, you won't know how to interact in a not terrible fashion, even if you run into people who aren't going to treat you terribly.

Therapy can help you see that you have patterns of behavior shaped by negative social experiences and those patterns of behavior basically presume that everyone will behave in a particular way towards you and that way is not a nice way to behave. It can help you see that how you behave helps keep the negative social climate alive in your life and you have the power to behave differently going forward.

It can help you sort out "Some people will do bad things to me and some won't. It's okay to make judgement calls about how to interact with different social situations for my own benefit." instead of going with some default learned behavior that is no longer serving you well.

Metaphorically, it's a little like growing up in a very bad neighborhood where everyone carries a gun. Carrying a gun and being quick to show it to let people know you aren't going to be an easy victim is a matter of course. It's the only way to survive.

Then you move to a nicer neighborhood where no one owns a gun. You continue flashing your gun anytime you feel threatened by anything to let people know you aren't an easy mark.

They react negatively to you signaling that you are prepared to defend yourself with deadly force if necessary. In their world, only crazy people routinely talk about being prepared to use deadly force. That's simply not how things get settled in their world.

You go to a therapist and he tells you "So, have you noticed that you left the neighborhood you grew up in and no one around you even carries a gun? Have you thought about trying to find some means to enforce your personal boundaries without pointing a gun at everyone you meet? Why don't you try that and see if people react different to you."

So you go to a party and don't pull out your gun. And people are weirdly nice to you, nicer than they have ever been.

And it's food for thought and you discuss the incident with your therapist the next time you see them. Your entire social life improves and you start to trust that maybe your therapist actually has good ideas and they aren't just trying to convince you to lay down your arms just to make it easier to take advantage of you, even though that's the standard you grew up with.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#67

Post by calewis »

__s wrote: post #17
charleyramm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it was necessary to go through this process with a therapist, or could a less expensive alternative have had the same effect?

As with many things, a therapist offers one to exchange money for time spent figuring out things on your own I've found success without therapy through minimal exercise over no exercise & framing things as neutral Framing things as neutral: I'm Canadian, so during Winter I've made a point to perceive the statement "I'm cold" as a neutral statement. A sensory experience as opposed to an affliction of pain. Also focuss…

This is an approach that worked for you. You have employed your own CBT technique it sounds like, and that's great! Bit I think it's unfair to imply that you can just work harder and come to the same conclusions without a professional. A physiotherapist is often highly educated in psychology and has had, usually, years of experience dealing with a range of people, issues and scenarios. Some people, due to what ever is going on in their head (myself included) can't see the wood for the tree's and a therapists job is to help bring that clarity. Mental health is complex and unique to the individual, there isn't a thing that works for everyone, even therapy.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#68

Post by fwip »

onemoresoop wrote: post #40
sjg007 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that may help is to label your depression as it's own independent thing. Something that exists outside of your core self. Even give it a name, say Dave. Then when you are feeling depressed say, hey that's just Dave, why is Dave feeling this way? Is there another perspective that Dave isn't seeing etc...

This mind trick works for some and at its core it's the same idea of compartmentalizing. There are different ways to get to compartmentalizing and yes, it does help clear the mind, reduce anxiety/mind chatter by grouping and labeling things/thoughts somehow (by personal choice) such that when something arises to the conscious mind it can be located, acknowledged and dealt with at a later time if needed.

Yep, this helps me with my anxiety and depression.

Being able to recognize "I'm feeling anxious, and these thoughts are a product of that anxiety" allows me to process them and move on. It doesn't immediately relieve that anxiety, but it keeps me from spiraling downward, and lets me know that I should take care of myself until I feel better.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#69

Post by RickS »

FailMore wrote: post #51

I had eight years of therapy and it totally transformed my life, it was rather odd but it was only when my therapist and I started using dreams in non-traditional way (as set out here https://psyarxiv.com/k6trz ) that things started to rapidly improve.

This was a really fascinating paper! The first part feels intuitively true – that dreams are instructional surfacings of situational classes that require attention. The bit about PTSD dreams being "mercy of environment" rather than having situational autonomy was really interesting. It's a shame the paper cuts off right there, but I'm glad they at least dropped the teaser, it's a thread I'm going to pull. If you have any more recommended reading on this, I'd love to check it out / talk about this. Email's in profile.

If you want to dig more into the "anxiety/avoidance mental responses are fundamentally biological" aspect: I and others on HN recommend "The Body Keeps The Score".

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