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The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

smithsonianmag.com

61–70 of 80 posts

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#61
post #12

Has anything changed? The man who signed and implemented this lopsided "agreement" was president and is still celebrated by many. His nickname was "the Indian killer". His portrait hangs in the Oval Office.

Nothing's changed. This is what strong nations everywhere, have always done to weaker ones whenever the weaker one has something they want.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#62
post #51
post #12

Has anything changed? The man who signed and implemented this lopsided "agreement" was president and is still celebrated by many. His nickname was "the Indian killer". His portrait hangs in the Oval Office.

George Washington's nickname was Town Destroyer ( for wiping out native american towns ). https://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/tow... Thomas Jefferson on exterminating the natives. "This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate." Gene…

We should stop praising and erecting monuments or memorializations to murderers and slaveowners and teach and accept how this nation was founded by them, not pretend like this is a nuanced issue.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#63
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Washington's nickname was Town Destroyer ( for wiping out native american towns ). https://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/tow... Thomas Jefferson on exterminating the natives. "This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate." Gene…

>The inescapable truth is this country ( and before if we include the pilgrims ) was subdued with conquest and series of genocides. Any sort of large scale immigration is going to cause friction. That doesn't have to take the form of wars and ethnic cleansing though. The Pilgrims showed up in 1620 and occupied land that had formerly belonged to a tribe that was wiped out with smallpox and generally had peaceful relat…

We actually never burned any witches at the stake. They were hanged.

https://www.history.com/news/were-witches-burned-at-the-stak...

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#64
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Washington's nickname was Town Destroyer ( for wiping out native american towns ). https://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/tow... Thomas Jefferson on exterminating the natives. "This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate." Gene…

We should stop praising and erecting monuments or memorializations to murderers and slaveowners and teach and accept how this nation was founded by them, not pretend like this is a nuanced issue.

But it IS a nuanced issue. The founding fathers on one hand founded the nation ad a democratic republic with a government obligated to respect the rights of the people in an era when totalitarian monarchy was the norm. They also killed natives and kept slaves. That does not mean the good things they did do not deserve to be memorialized.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#66
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Washington's nickname was Town Destroyer ( for wiping out native american towns ). https://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/tow... Thomas Jefferson on exterminating the natives. "This unfortunate race, whom we had been taking so much pains to save and to civilize, have by their unexpected desertion and ferocious barbarities justified extermination and now await our decision on their fate." Gene…

>The inescapable truth is this country ( and before if we include the pilgrims ) was subdued with conquest and series of genocides. Any sort of large scale immigration is going to cause friction. That doesn't have to take the form of wars and ethnic cleansing though. The Pilgrims showed up in 1620 and occupied land that had formerly belonged to a tribe that was wiped out with smallpox and generally had peaceful relat…

> Everybody tends to white wash [the Puritan regime] because they had high literacy rates and treated women better than most at the time.

I don't think this squares with The Scarlet Letter being read in just about every high school in the US.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#67
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The inescapable truth is this country ( and before if we include the pilgrims ) was subdued with conquest and series of genocides. Any sort of large scale immigration is going to cause friction. That doesn't have to take the form of wars and ethnic cleansing though. The Pilgrims showed up in 1620 and occupied land that had formerly belonged to a tribe that was wiped out with smallpox and generally had peaceful relat…

We actually never burned any witches at the stake. They were hanged. https://www.history.com/news/were-witches-burned-at-the-stak...

I think that "burning at the stake" while not historically accurate better conveys the circumstances under which those people were executed because it calls to mind a "witch hunt" in the metaphorical sense which is a fitting description of the (literal) witch hunts in question. At the end of the day "witch hunts" were a thing of the past and Europe (rightfully) regarded the Puritan's witch hunts in Massachusetts colony the way we would regard hearing about a some practices that we consider barbaric and have long since moved on from.

In any case I have edited my original comment to be technically correct.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The inescapable truth is this country ( and before if we include the pilgrims ) was subdued with conquest and series of genocides. Any sort of large scale immigration is going to cause friction. That doesn't have to take the form of wars and ethnic cleansing though. The Pilgrims showed up in 1620 and occupied land that had formerly belonged to a tribe that was wiped out with smallpox and generally had peaceful relat…

> Everybody tends to white wash [the Puritan regime] because they had high literacy rates and treated women better than most at the time. I don't think this squares with The Scarlet Letter being read in just about every high school in the US.

>I don't think this squares with The Scarlet Letter being read in just about every high school in the US.

I guess I should have said "My Massachusetts public school education tends to white wash the Puritan regime".

I've made comments about it before but getting most of my high school education in a different state as well as having my siblings get their education in different states really opened up my eyes to how politically tilted school curriculum are. Anything that's politically inconvenient gets covered at an age to young to think critically about it or covered to fast to have time to think about it. I assume the southern states whitewash everything pre-1865 and the plains states whitewash the Indian wars.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Mexico rural indigenous peasants were treated as subhuman garbage. White landowners pretty much did what they liked: murder, rape, theft, kidnapping, forced labor, mass-murder, destruction of whole villages, forced relocation, ... Within living memory, indigenous people would have their property stolen or destroyed by Spanish-speaking thugs with no legal recourse, would be forced into labor, would be murdered or r…

By the way, why did Southern states import slaves from Africa instead of enslaving local people?

When the Europeans settled in the Carolinas, they brought malaria with them. The ensuing epidemic affected both the natives and the settlers (and malaria, with lethargy as its major symptom, is especially bad for a manual labor force). People of West African descent tend to have a very strong resistance to malaria that's related (in a way I don't understand) to the sickle-cell gene. Since the ships trading back and forth across the Atlantic were also trading to the western coast of Africa (and exchanging sailors/slaves/passengers at all stops), eventually some west African laborers ended up in the carolinas, and someone noted that they were unaffected by malaria.

The eventual presence of large groups of west african laborers, combined with a tradition/economy of chattel slavery among the Carolina natives that predated the settlers to create a very economically effective slavery system that spread across the southern US.

Re: The Treaty That Forced the Cherokee People from Their Homelands Goes on View

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big difference between the USA and regions further south is that in the USA white settlers just mass-slaughtered most of those who remained post-disease so they could steal their land, whereas further south they were instead pressed into forced labor in service of a relatively small group of white colonial overseers. This seems to be at odds with the fact that the US colonies (some of them, at least) imported A…

> In theory, if they needed slave labor, why not make slaves out of the indigenous? It's a lot harder for an imported slave to run off than a local one. Local slave knows the land, knows where to run to , has a decent expectation that if they run there things will be better... An imported slave who runs doesn't really have that. And where systems could be put in place to keep slaves from running, like the islands of…

also, when victims are imported (from multiple places) there are no nearby kins and intertribal treaties to retaliate against the agressor
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