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Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

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Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#61

Post by purple-again »

Veen wrote: post #57
DanBC wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule is "ask for permission before toucing someone else". I find it weird that you've escalated this into some huge thing that infringes upon your freedoms. Keep your fucking hands off my body.

Have you considered that your discomfort with social touching is indicative of personal issues that you need to address, rather than demanding a monumental shift in social norms to align everyone's behaviour with your idiosyncratic preferences.

The above poster was very brash with his emotions which is probably the source of downvotes but his opinion is shared by many, and by me very deeply.

I’m forced to spend a significant amount of time in Miami in a professional setting. I am so damn tired of women touching me in what I consider a wildly inappropriate and intimate way.

I never say anything to them because I don’t think their is anything wrong with them, I understand it’s just cultural. I share deep hugs with my close male friends of 30+ years frequently. I don’t accept that there is anything wrong with me or the above poster. We simply don’t want to be touched outside of the contexts we find appropriate.

This discussion has been excellent as it’s mainly focused on how to handle the rules of engagement in a world that includes people like us and people like them. Please try to focus on that and not on deciding who is wrong.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#62

Post by seba_dos1 »

sethammons wrote: post #21
_jal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it really isn't hard to avoid touching someone who doesn't like it. If simple accommodations like that are a "slippery slope", I'd suggest a little empathy.

Obviously, if you know someone doesn't like a thing, you can avoid doing that thing. It is quite common for some people who just met to clasp a shoulder or similar. It provides extra social comfort and connectivity. I'd suggest a little empathy for those seeking human connection in a socially positive way. Hmm. Seems that empathy thing goes both ways.

> It provides extra social comfort and connectivity.

It does, but not for "people who just met". For them it provides awkwardness and the feeling of being dominated.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#63

Post by [deleted] »

Veen wrote: post #57
DanBC wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule is "ask for permission before toucing someone else". I find it weird that you've escalated this into some huge thing that infringes upon your freedoms. Keep your fucking hands off my body.

Have you considered that your discomfort with social touching is indicative of personal issues that you need to address, rather than demanding a monumental shift in social norms to align everyone's behaviour with your idiosyncratic preferences.

[deleted]

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#64

Post by sethammons »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #62
sethammons wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, if you know someone doesn't like a thing, you can avoid doing that thing. It is quite common for some people who just met to clasp a shoulder or similar. It provides extra social comfort and connectivity. I'd suggest a little empathy for those seeking human connection in a socially positive way. Hmm. Seems that empathy thing goes both ways.

> It provides extra social comfort and connectivity. It does, but not for "people who just met". For them it provides awkwardness and the feeling of being dominated.

When I talk to a little old lady in the grocery line and she touches my arm, I do not feel dominated, but to each their own I guess.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#65

Post by ksaj »

sethammons wrote: post #64
seba_dos1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It provides extra social comfort and connectivity. It does, but not for "people who just met". For them it provides awkwardness and the feeling of being dominated.

When I talk to a little old lady in the grocery line and she touches my arm, I do not feel dominated, but to each their own I guess.

This thread goes on indefinitely because of the lack of one word: context. You think of that little old lady one way. But if she was Queen Elizabeth, you would perceive something completely different in terms of power dynamics.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#66

Post by Veen »

purple-again wrote: post #61
Veen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that your discomfort with social touching is indicative of personal issues that you need to address, rather than demanding a monumental shift in social norms to align everyone's behaviour with your idiosyncratic preferences.

The above poster was very brash with his emotions which is probably the source of downvotes but his opinion is shared by many, and by me very deeply. I’m forced to spend a significant amount of time in Miami in a professional setting. I am so damn tired of women touching me in what I consider a wildly inappropriate and intimate way. I never say anything to them because I don’t think their is anything wrong with them,…

I have no problem with a person who doesn’t like to be touched saying so. It’s just good manners to respect people’s preferences. And it’s good manners to be attentive to people’s reactions and adjust accordingly. We should all try to respect each other’s boundaries.

But I object to people who insist that a common behavior is deviant, wrong, or offensive simply because they don’t like it. Social norms should not be dictated by an loud idiosyncratic minority with extreme adverse reactions to normal interactions.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #13

I hate saying this, but people who take advantage of norms is why we can’t have nice things. In this case nice things is social interaction that’re natural which don’t require a “contract” (I.e. I’m thinking of hugging you, may I hug you?). It’s so big brother-like. It’s a bit opposite of being social. It becomes more like a mechanical contract and lawyerly. This is not a path I wish to go down. Some people are over…

[deleted]

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#68

Post by sethammons »

ksaj wrote: post #65
sethammons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I talk to a little old lady in the grocery line and she touches my arm, I do not feel dominated, but to each their own I guess.

This thread goes on indefinitely because of the lack of one word: context. You think of that little old lady one way. But if she was Queen Elizabeth, you would perceive something completely different in terms of power dynamics.

While I've yet to have Queen Elizabeth or some other high ranking official have some physical contact with me, pretty sure my first reaction would not to be thinking bout oppression.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#69

Post by lmorchard »

nkkollaw wrote: post #18

Some people are uncomfortable with non-touchers. Can't people regulate basic social interactions without the government stepping in, anymore? If you're uncomfortable with a pat on your shoulder, just tell the person.

> just tell the person

Sure, that always works fine. They won't take offense or make it a thing or blow it up and make everything awkward from then after.

Of course, I'm being sarcastic. It's usually easier to just eat the discomfort and not make a fuss. But, it would be nicer to not get touched by randos in the first place.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#70

Post by lmorchard »

_Microft wrote: post #32

I think the best thing we could do to solve a whole lot of problems at once is assertiveness training for pupils, for example. Teach young people how to communicate what they perceive as their boundaries and that violations of these boundaries will have consequences. I would expect that a lot of things will get better. It would be a win for both active and passive parties in every interaction. If someone finds their…

Or, maybe, what if people kept their hands to themselves so that others didn't need to be on assertive defense against touchy grabby hands?

If you know for sure someone welcomes contact from you, then sure go ahead.

Otherwise, you're asking double from the person whose boundaries were violated: First, the discomfort of the unsolicited contact. Then, second, the discomfort of causing a scene to assert their boundaries.

It's nearly always easier to just accept the first small and incidental discomfort and move on - but it doesn't mean it was okay.

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