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Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

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Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#11

Post by whenchamenia »

pacala wrote: post #10
josh_fyi wrote: post #3

It's not just the potential sexual threat that generates discomfort. A friendly pat on the shoulder can also be interpreted as a dominance display.

The cat is out of the bag, can we please let this piece of poppsych die? A surprisingly large number of manager wannabe type at a FAANG company made a point to try to pat me on the back in public. Please stop trying to symbolically stomp on people you'd like on your team, it's demeaning. Especially for yourself.

I think, as your posts demonstrate, reading too much in to any action is problematic. If a platonic touch is 'symbolic stomping' to you, perhaps the issue is larger than a single action.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#12

Post by _jal »

sethammons wrote: post #5

Feels like a slippery slope. Someone will always feel uncomfortable with something.

No, it really isn't hard to avoid touching someone who doesn't like it. If simple accommodations like that are a "slippery slope", I'd suggest a little empathy.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#13

Post by mc32 »

I hate saying this, but people who take advantage of norms is why we can’t have nice things.

In this case nice things is social interaction that’re natural which don’t require a “contract” (I.e. I’m thinking of hugging you, may I hug you?).

It’s so big brother-like. It’s a bit opposite of being social. It becomes more like a mechanical contract and lawyerly. This is not a path I wish to go down.

Some people are over touchy, but, and here I agree with Pelosi, you have agency. Put your hand out for a shake, or whatever. Yes, some people smooch too much or hug or touch too much, but they are outliers and introducing these artificial mechanics to, in theory, thwart these people, I think is not worth the trouble.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#14

Post by [deleted] »

_jal wrote: post #12
sethammons wrote: post #5

Feels like a slippery slope. Someone will always feel uncomfortable with something.

No, it really isn't hard to avoid touching someone who doesn't like it. If simple accommodations like that are a "slippery slope", I'd suggest a little empathy.

[deleted]

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#16

Post by JohnStrangeII »

In my opinion, there should be no rules for such basic social interactions, neither rules for regulating the touching nor rules for regulating the reaction to it. It's not just a matter of personal freedom not to have such rules, human behavior cannot and should not be regulated in such ways. Every human interaction enforces or is based on existing norms anyway, but these change over time and fixed rules would prevent that change. The change is needed to adapt to changing living conditions and technological changes.

Of course, there can be exceptions, for example rules may make sense when there is an extremely asymmetric power relation, e.g. one is the employer of another, and we already have rules in the form of laws for that purpose.

Without getting political (please!), does somebody have an idea where does this obsession with rules come from? Fear of civil lawsuits in the US?

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#17

Post by everdrive »

0815test wrote: post #9

> Humans require social touch, but the rules that govern its deployment are not biologically determined... On the contrary; social touch, with the ensuing spectrum between "discomfort/aggression/dominance" and "affiliation/friendship/social comfort" is actually found in all social mammals, it has nothing to do with society, gender, sexual undertones or anything human-specific like that! Even domesticated cats http://…

You're helping to create a very cold world. I've heard the term neopuritan thrown around in this context, and the more I think about it the more it fits. The modern obsession with harshly judging the body language, physical touch, and emotion of individuals today feels like a technology-enabled Scarlet Letter.

People's preferences aren't immediately self-evident to all observers, and intent does matter.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#19

Post by 0815test »

JohnStrangeII wrote: post #16

In my opinion, there should be no rules for such basic social interactions, neither rules for regulating the touching nor rules for regulating the reaction to it. It's not just a matter of personal freedom not to have such rules, human behavior cannot and should not be regulated in such ways. Every human interaction enforces or is based on existing norms anyway, but these change over time and fixed rules would preven…

It's actually a matter of personal freedom to have such rules. Joe Biden's-- or anyone else's-- freedom to swing his fist should end at my nose, and this should be made clear and unambiguous to everyone's benefit. License and anarchy are the opposite of genuine, actual freedom.

Re: Some people are uncomfortable with touchers. Should they set the rules?

#20

Post by pacala »

whenchamenia wrote: post #11
pacala wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cat is out of the bag, can we please let this piece of poppsych die? A surprisingly large number of manager wannabe type at a FAANG company made a point to try to pat me on the back in public. Please stop trying to symbolically stomp on people you'd like on your team, it's demeaning. Especially for yourself.

I think, as your posts demonstrate, reading too much in to any action is problematic. If a platonic touch is 'symbolic stomping' to you, perhaps the issue is larger than a single action.

Right. Except that none of my other coworkers tried the pat of the back trick. Except that said managers never did it in private. Just don't do it, instant respect losing move.
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