The sharing economy was always a scam • Hacker News Board

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#61

Post by smadge » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:50 AM UTC

jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

I think that twitter story is an example of the financially precarious position many workers are in. It only supports the idea that our economy is fundamentally unfair to working people. How is it acceptable that a mother of three going to nursing school has to support herself and her family through contributions from friends and family, multiple part time jobs, and driving for Uber? Going to school and raising a family is a full time commitment in itself.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#62

Post by ACow_Adonis » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:50 AM UTC

trimbo wrote: post #29

jeffbax wrote: post #12

Articles like this ignore the impact on individuals. For every group that is trying to full time Uber/Lyft or turn an AirBNB into a hotel, there's also tons of people who are doing in the spare time to make some extra or work the better allocation of resources into something beneficial for them. See threads like: https://twitter.com/RantyAmyCurtis/status/110272136190510694... That's what sharing is about, more optima…

> That's what sharing is about, more optimal allocation/usage. It's not an end-all solution to everything, it's a supplement. Do you think that drives down the wages of the people who need to do it as their main source of income?

Well, that's what basic economic theory would predict, so I'd argue you'd need to have a pretty robust and demonstrated reason to conclude that it wouldn't. You've first got the general increasing in the supply of labour, but then you've got a secondary effect considering the lowering of barriers to people who consider car ownership a sunk cost and not connected directly and solely to using the vehicle for income-production introducing a very low marginal rate for some of that supply...

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#63

Post by joejerryronnie » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

nnnnnande wrote: post #49

joejerryronnie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I have a problem with this line of thought. You are not an employee of these companies if you can sign up through an app, choose how much or little you want to work, and have no boss. If you want the living wage, health insurance, and employee perks then apply for an actual job and go through the full interview process like the rest of us. This mentality of “I want everything you have but I don’t want to actuall…

> This mentality of “I want everything you have but I don’t want to actually put the time and effort in to get it” is very frustrating. How do you know that these people haven't already put time and effort into trying to get an "actual job"? It would seem to me that the free market does not serve everyone with equal economic opportunity and that the world economy is more nuanced than what your average libertarian wou…

We’re at historically low levels of unemployment. There’s work out there if you want it. Sure, based on your skills and experience, you may not find a job which supports the lifestyle you want or the rent where you want to live, but then you reset your expectations and move to a place with a lower COL.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#64

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #35

neokantian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am free to make the deals that I want, regardless of what they include or don't include. Why would I need you to protect me from myself? Why do you want to micromanage other people's lives? Is your own life not interesting enough already?

Because your life impacts mine. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19335217

[deleted]

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#65

Post by antidesitter » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

cwyers wrote: post #26

neokantian wrote: post #11

If you do not like the sharing economy, then do not participate in it. "Other people should not be doing this, and should not be doing that, ..." is one bridge too far. For heaven's sake, who the hell are you, to tell other people what to do?

Here's the thing. Economic transactions can have externalities -- costs to someone not a party to the transaction that are not reflected in the cost of the good or service in the transaction. The "sharing economy" has loads of externalities. It's like saying, if you don't like the bonfire, don't participate to it, when you've set the fire downwind of someone and there's smoke blowing in their tent.

Every industry has externalities, both positive and negative. Your comment is basically vacuous.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#66

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #50

door5 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/nyregion/taxi-drivers-sui... It's easy to be cavalier if you ignore the effect on Taxi workers. Ride sharing replaced a stable, unionized, middle class career with low-paying, low-benefit gig jobs. It ruined people's lives and destroyed a stable field of work. This wasn't a technological innovation -- it was a legal one, where they figured out a way to evade regulations to undercut…

It ruined people's lives and destroyed a stable field of work. Telephone operators and travel agents used to have stable careers. This wasn't a technological innovation If the technology is so insignificant, why didn't taxi companies develop ride-hailing apps? Either it's actually complex, or they decided they had no need to improve service because of their oligopoly.

[deleted]

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#67

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

neokantian wrote: post #11

If you do not like the sharing economy, then do not participate in it. "Other people should not be doing this, and should not be doing that, ..." is one bridge too far. For heaven's sake, who the hell are you, to tell other people what to do?

It's not that simple and I think that should be abundantly clear. People buying up properties and renting them on Airbnb has wider impact than only to the people that choose to actively participate or don't. And it affects not only the units in that specific building, but the community and property surrounding it.

More cars on the road, encouraged by the incentives of Uber/Lyft, affect pollution, road congestion, and public health.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#68

Post by aikah » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #51

Sharing economy has existed well before technology and will outlast Uber and others. When you ask friends to drop you at airport that is sharing. When your aunt babyseats for you that is sharing economy. Potluck is sharing economy. Economic efficiency through sharing is a great thing for society, it is just that it is hard to get it right at scale but nevertheless we are trying and we will test success sooner or late…

> When you ask friends to drop you at airport that is sharing.

And your friend didn't need a professional insurance for his car for that. The difference is scale. Giving a lift from time to time to friends is very different from doing it full time while pretending you are not a taxi.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#69

Post by geezerjay » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

door5 wrote: post #8

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #5

The claim was never that "‘Sharing’ was supposed to save us" nor any of the other allegations in the article. In fact there never was any unified claims. Of course the individual companies made claims about how their platform would save you a bit of time and money and friction. And that has largely been true. Millions of people each saves a little time and money, and that in aggregate has benefited us tremendously. T…

Who is "us"? Maybe upper middle class consumers, but not the workers at these companies.

If those providing services through platforms such as Uber or airbnb didn't benefitted from them then they'd be doing something else instead.

Furthermore, of detractors actually cared about "the workers" then they'd be worried about how they have no better options instead of attacking the best options they have.

And no, banning Uber or airbnb does not make the workers' lives any better. It just an option off the table, and to some it's the best option they have.

Re: The sharing economy was always a scam

#70

Post by quickthrower2 » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 6:03 AM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #51

Sharing economy has existed well before technology and will outlast Uber and others. When you ask friends to drop you at airport that is sharing. When your aunt babyseats for you that is sharing economy. Potluck is sharing economy. Economic efficiency through sharing is a great thing for society, it is just that it is hard to get it right at scale but nevertheless we are trying and we will test success sooner or late…

Doing favours for friends is very tax efficient. You basically pay no tax when you give or receive a favour. And let's face it, even though sometimes you might pay a friend to babysit or whatever it is cash in hand and no tax.

But the sharing economy requires you to pay from your after tax salary to someone else, who then pays tax on that before they get their pay. On top of that the rent seeker (uber, etc.) has to take their slice. So it's a low paid marginal business once you are being paid.