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Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

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Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#61

Post by justicezyx »

komali2 wrote: post #11
justicezyx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if mainlanders' feeling are hurt, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings, just because they are from mainland China? Does this count as racism at all? Or it still counts as mainlanders are not applicable to most usual social rules?

Sure, I hear you, and I appreciate your appeal to fairness, because I was going to bring it up too - why is it acceptable for China to demand airlines not even recognize the sovereignty of the nation of Taiwan, but it's not acceptable for Taiwanese citizens to call the man leading the country bullying them "Winnie the Pooh?"

> why is it acceptable for China to demand airlines not even recognize the sovereignty of the nation of Taiwan

Who accept that?

I as one growing up from mainland does not think that's fair. It's just the country showing its power and influence.

Your question should be framed on the thread, not extending beyond what's currently being discussed.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#62

Post by justicezyx »

gpm wrote: post #16
justicezyx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if mainlanders' feeling are hurt, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings, just because they are from mainland China? Does this count as racism at all? Or it still counts as mainlanders are not applicable to most usual social rules?

No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. It not only has nothing to do with race, it has nothing to do with national boundary, political association, or anything else. It's just a thing that we (westerners) take as a fundamental right. It's irrelevant, but I also doubt that a substantial percentage of mainlanders actually have their feelings hurt by comparing…

> No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings.

How is that possible. If you are educated to love someone as your dearest, how would you not taking ill if someone else is mocking that person.

It's a separate issue that if that education is good or bad. But you got to set your context right: no feeling is automatically born, it's from experience.

> but I also doubt that a substantial percentage of mainlanders actually have their feelings hurt by comparing the ruler to Winnie the Pooh...

Well, if you are not from China, then do not doubt how I would quantify the impact.

Let me tell you, a random tier-3 dota player from a SEA pro team, "kuku", said some racial slang on a pub game. And then he was threatened to death, and so many people voiced their angry that the Dota2 maker, Valve, has to officially ban that player so that he wont enter the country and causes unnecessary issues for the company (well, you know any company bend to profits).

Do not paraphrase what you know to other nations, especially one that has their culture and history inherited since 2k+ years ago.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#63

Post by komali2 »

justicezyx wrote: post #61
komali2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I hear you, and I appreciate your appeal to fairness, because I was going to bring it up too - why is it acceptable for China to demand airlines not even recognize the sovereignty of the nation of Taiwan, but it's not acceptable for Taiwanese citizens to call the man leading the country bullying them "Winnie the Pooh?"

> why is it acceptable for China to demand airlines not even recognize the sovereignty of the nation of Taiwan Who accept that? I as one growing up from mainland does not think that's fair. It's just the country showing its power and influence. Your question should be framed on the thread, not extending beyond what's currently being discussed.

>Who accept that?

Tons of PRC citizens. Why haven't they "review bombed" their own government? Why did they flock to the internet to yell at GAP when it released a sweater with the proper map of PRC on it, with no Taiwan displayed?

As for context, no discussion happens without it. We're not doing logarithms here, we're talking about geopolitics. I reject the notion that I should keep my discussion "framed."

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#64

Post by komali2 »

justicezyx wrote: post #62
gpm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. It not only has nothing to do with race, it has nothing to do with national boundary, political association, or anything else. It's just a thing that we (westerners) take as a fundamental right. It's irrelevant, but I also doubt that a substantial percentage of mainlanders actually have their feelings hurt by comparing…

> No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. How is that possible. If you are educated to love someone as your dearest, how would you not taking ill if someone else is mocking that person. It's a separate issue that if that education is good or bad. But you got to set your context right: no feeling is automatically born, it's from experience. > but I also doubt…

>especially one that has their culture and history inherited since 2k+ years ago.

Can you expand on the relevance of this? It seems you're implying that your regional history and culture is somehow older/better than anyone else's. That would be silly - European culture extends so far back their early governments were eloping with Egyptian Pharos.

It's also silly because you and I have nothing at all to do with our country's history - it happened before we were born, and we didn't get a choice of nationhood.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#65

Post by justicezyx »

komali2 wrote: post #64
justicezyx wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. How is that possible. If you are educated to love someone as your dearest, how would you not taking ill if someone else is mocking that person. It's a separate issue that if that education is good or bad. But you got to set your context right: no feeling is automatically born, it's from experience. > but I also doubt…

>especially one that has their culture and history inherited since 2k+ years ago. Can you expand on the relevance of this? It seems you're implying that your regional history and culture is somehow older/better than anyone else's. That would be silly - European culture extends so far back their early governments were eloping with Egyptian Pharos. It's also silly because you and I have nothing at all to do with our co…

I said different, long history implies a long different paths.

PS: I cannot help hn visitors are getting more and more narrow minded. The discussion is becoming more and more laborious as more and more good intended contexts have to be explicitly called out to avoid meaningless emotional damage repair.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#66

Post by gpm »

justicezyx wrote: post #62
gpm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. It not only has nothing to do with race, it has nothing to do with national boundary, political association, or anything else. It's just a thing that we (westerners) take as a fundamental right. It's irrelevant, but I also doubt that a substantial percentage of mainlanders actually have their feelings hurt by comparing…

> No, if peoples feelings are hurt over political speech, it's fine to totally ignore their feelings. How is that possible. If you are educated to love someone as your dearest, how would you not taking ill if someone else is mocking that person. It's a separate issue that if that education is good or bad. But you got to set your context right: no feeling is automatically born, it's from experience. > but I also doubt…

> How is that possible.

Because we view the right of free political speech as vastly more important that peoples feelings.

I'm not saying people don't get their feelings hurt over political speech, they do. I'm saying that it doesn't matter and the speaker doesn't have to change what they are saying as a result. Per typical western values anyways, you are of course free to disagree. That doesn't make people racist, it has nothing to do with race (or nationality/political association/anything else).

> Well, if you are not from China, then do not doubt how I would quantify the impact.

No. This is wrong in a few ways

- Accepting a random internet persona's statements as truth without evidence is obviously ridiculous - particularly when there are known to be paid actors influencing the discussion.

- Lack of first hand experience does not mean you can't make reasonable inferences about the situation.

- One persons on the ground experience does not generalize to a billion people.

That said, I don't really particularly care to debate whether or not a substantial number of peoples feelings were hurt. I don't think it's important and I don't think it's a discussion that is likely to result in any useful progress in anyone's understanding of the situation.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#67

Post by komali2 »

justicezyx wrote: post #65
komali2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>especially one that has their culture and history inherited since 2k+ years ago. Can you expand on the relevance of this? It seems you're implying that your regional history and culture is somehow older/better than anyone else's. That would be silly - European culture extends so far back their early governments were eloping with Egyptian Pharos. It's also silly because you and I have nothing at all to do with our co…

I said different, long history implies a long different paths. PS: I cannot help hn visitors are getting more and more narrow minded. The discussion is becoming more and more laborious as more and more good intended contexts have to be explicitly called out to avoid meaningless emotional damage repair.

> long different paths.

Sure, but you were implying the OP knew less than you, simply because you are (I assume) Chinese. This is a remarkable claim to make on the internet - the OP could be a Chinese historian steeped in far more history than yourself. It's just a strange thing to say so I wanted to call it out.

>Narrow minded

Who here has been narrow minded and in what way? When I asked why it's acceptable for Chinese netizens to downvote a game to oblivion because the game has an easter egg calling Xi Jinping "Winnie the Pooh," but not acceptable for GAP to release a proper map of the PRC on their sweaters (that doesn't include Taiwan), you answered that I was "talking out of context." I would argue in this thread you have been narrow-minded, literally "unwilling to see the other side of the argument."

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#68

Post by z2 »

ionised wrote: post #57
hitekker wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friends from the mainland call these people 愤青, which means "young jingoistic men". Any sleight against China and they’ll come in droves: screeching, gibbering, and proclaiming the eternal glory of the lunar kingdom (and its subsidiaries). These trolls just want to feel big. Bullying other countries make them feel big. Especially when the smaller country in question the one they dream of conquering.

Your entire post also perfectly describes most Americans I encounter on social media. I think it's just young uneducated idiots, taking credit for the accomplishments of their nation that they personally had no part in to try to convince people they argue with online that they aren't as insecure as they obviously are. It's an inferiority complex.

There's a quote I can't find that echoed this, from a former ultra-nationalist, who said she, despite being unemployed, in a rut, etc., was still a citizen of her country, and so she clung to vocal nationalism for a sense of desperately-needed purpose.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#69

Post by justicezyx »

komali2 wrote: post #67
justicezyx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said different, long history implies a long different paths. PS: I cannot help hn visitors are getting more and more narrow minded. The discussion is becoming more and more laborious as more and more good intended contexts have to be explicitly called out to avoid meaningless emotional damage repair.

> long different paths. Sure, but you were implying the OP knew less than you, simply because you are (I assume) Chinese. This is a remarkable claim to make on the internet - the OP could be a Chinese historian steeped in far more history than yourself. It's just a strange thing to say so I wanted to call it out. >Narrow minded Who here has been narrow minded and in what way? When I asked why it's acceptable for Chin…

Well, the op said something that is clearly misrepresentation of Chinese ethos.

Re: Taiwanese horror game boycotted, removed from China market, company apologizes

#70

Post by ionised »

z2 wrote: post #68
ionised wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire post also perfectly describes most Americans I encounter on social media. I think it's just young uneducated idiots, taking credit for the accomplishments of their nation that they personally had no part in to try to convince people they argue with online that they aren't as insecure as they obviously are. It's an inferiority complex.

There's a quote I can't find that echoed this, from a former ultra-nationalist, who said she, despite being unemployed, in a rut, etc., was still a citizen of her country, and so she clung to vocal nationalism for a sense of desperately-needed purpose.

Not sure who you are referring to, but there is a great Schopenhauer quote along the same lines:

The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellow men. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Aphorisms on the Wisdom of Life

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