A health insurance startup with a medical tourism option to Cuba, Canada, or India would be a promising venture, for sure.
What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
61–70 of 132 posts
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our government is busted. In many cases, it fails to function at all. Thousands of regulations, which are effectively laws, switch back and forth every time the president changes. Both parties blame the other and some independents blame both parties. We have become, as a society, incapable of forming and abiding to compromises. Our healthcare is a shit show, but it's not nearly as much of a shit show as our governmen…
I agree that the government is busted. But from what I understand, one of the two ruling parties is at least somewhat pro-socialized medicine. I do not understand what needs to be compromised about socialized medicine. I struggle with the idea that fear of the government is greater than the desire for universal medical coverage.
Imagine if there were several powerful allied special interest groups that all made a bunch of money from healthcare staying expensive.
And they're not just trying to change your mind. They're also working to get the support of the electorate directly.
Now imagine some of those groups had absolutely superb PR. Literally making childhood cancer sufferers healthy again.
Now imagine, like every industry that wants government influence, they hire your friends into highly paid do-nothing jobs, donate generously when you raise money for your charitable foundation, and so on.
Now imagine they're a big employer. And they've got a whole bunch of jobs. Office jobs. Highly paid high-level jobs. Well paid mid-level jobs. Jobs that employ lots of minority groups.
Now imagine that the most efficient outcome would be to shut down all the insurance companies and nationalise all the hospitals, but you don't have the political capital to deliver that, it'd make a lot of people very nervous, and you're not even sure it'd be a moral thing to do anyway. So you'll probably have to settle for a middle ground that keeps a lot of the existing middlemen fat and happy.
Now imagine, even if your reform is a huge success and goes way better than you have any right to expect, people are still going to die in hospitals, and some people are going to say some of them are your fault.
Now imagine turning a blind eye to the problem has been working just fine for the last 20 years. It'd be so easy to just let sleeping dogs lie...
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#63This might be a bit of a tangent, but I'll throw in my perspective as one of those who has been "risking it" for the last 4 months or so. (I won't go into why I'm risking it unless asked) I think it's difficult for a lot of people to justify paying a lot for things that don't provide much of a tangible/measurable benefit. Ideally, insurance would cover a person if something catastrophic happens, but otherwise it's di…
I know this has to do with health insurance, but I feel the same with auto insurance as well. It still feels like burning money. For example, I've been paying about $120/month for car insurance since I was 18, give or take. Never been in an accident. That's about $14k I've given to an insurance company for literally doing nothing.
And then when you do need it?
I was hit by a driver 6 weeks ago. He and insurance company accepted 100% liability. My 2015 Audi was totalled due to multiple airbag deployments (though the vehicle is largely intact other than frame, so will be healthily recouped by the insurer on the parts market).
Despite this...
I got a settlement offer from my insurer (who, bear in mind, are going to subrogate this to the opposing side) of $5K less than KBB for the vehicle (which was bought a year old, and is now 3 years into a 5 year loan), and $3K short of my outstanding loan (don't even start me on gap insurance - I've never seen that pay out, there's always a loophole).
So the insurer's idea of indemnifying me, mitigating my risk is for a 0% fault accident, I:
1) lose my car, which was in excellent condition, and barely 4 years old;
2) lose 3 years of equity in a five year loan;
3) do not have a car;
4) still owe my bank ~$3,000;
5) need to come up with a down-payment and a new loan for a vehicle within 7 calendar days of their (pitiful) settlement offer.
All the while getting condescending remarks like:
"Gap insurance would have protected you" (not in my experience, and my credit union 'neither recommended nor required it based on the FMV at purchase', and the only reason there's a deficit is your woefully inadequate settlement offer)
"We're looking after you - remember we've been paying your medical bills so far" (how ominous, "so far") - and I've been paying for a policy which included PIP for nearly a decade, so you'll forgive me for not lauding you fulfilling your contractual obligations _for which you have been compensated_.
To add insult to injury? They direct debited my premiums, including for the vehicle they totaled, and I had to explain this to a CSR. Who then said they'd take the amount they'd erroneously debited, and "apply it as a credit across the remaining 7 months of your policy on your other vehicle". No, thank you, I just want you to refund it.
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#64Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.
What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…
You're basically saying "fuck you, I got mine".
Yes, medicine is a business, an industry, and obeys the same rules as other businesses.
But the goods it produces, "healthcare", are not like other goods. Demand is infinite, supply is scarce, and on a national level it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis instead of a can-afford basis, because that leads to a healthier and more productive population, which is good for everyone.
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…
Maybe because we care about people who aren't making IT wages and can't afford to fly around and take weeks off at the drop of a hat.
Sorry, I care too. I just don't understand.
Because if you are not earning a whole lot and risk getting hit with a $100k hospital bill, it just make no sense whatsoever to just take the week off (or even quit!) and get treated abroad using your credit card.
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#66No insurance from my job since I'm freelance. It's $900/month for me and my wife.
Wow. In Germany you’d be paying 15% of your income for health insurance, and no more than 800$ per person if you make more than 5k a month (around that)
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#67Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.
What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…
> (and with IT salaries!).
The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability.
> Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other.
This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In a herd you can either strengthen your weak, or let them die off. Either way, the theory is that your herd will get stronger. The US has implicitly chosen the latter of the choices.
> If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere.
It's not that simple. Everyone gets sick. Not everyone needs an iPhone XR or a brand new pair of Nikes. You can get by with a flip phone and a pair of brand x sneakers. Freedom of choice is great for goods and certain services. Healthcare isn't one of those services where "taking your business elsewhere" is any good, mostly because of the pricing collusion between the providers.
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medica…
Thanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation. I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.
Rega offers the service for 25.- a year iirc
https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/faq.aspx?kid=56&gid=250#Frag...
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's going to be rough on you if you're hit by a car in Chicago and you only have insurance in France. There's a world of difference between emergency endoscopic surgery and a trip to the ED (or ER, or A&E, or whatever your country calls it).
My spouse had a trip to the ER at one of the most expansive hospital in Spain: 700 Eur, so about $900, all inclusive (radiology + seeing 2 doctors + bandages + the various fees they sprinkle the bill with). Top service. No delay. No hassle. They even provide a translator to follow you around in the hospital and make sure you get a great experience and come back again. Considering the medican income in Spain in around…
I chose Chicago at random, but according to this, you'd spend more than that to just get to the hospital in the first place: http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2014/04/the-cost-of-calling-...
Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's going to be rough on you if you're hit by a car in Chicago and you only have insurance in France. There's a world of difference between emergency endoscopic surgery and a trip to the ED (or ER, or A&E, or whatever your country calls it).
My spouse had a trip to the ER at one of the most expansive hospital in Spain: 700 Eur, so about $900, all inclusive (radiology + seeing 2 doctors + bandages + the various fees they sprinkle the bill with). Top service. No delay. No hassle. They even provide a translator to follow you around in the hospital and make sure you get a great experience and come back again. Considering the medican income in Spain in around…
> We are now investigating getting coverage in some European or Asian country, where they sell insurance for non residents + world coverage + air repatriation (in case of a serious condition, like getting hit by a car in Chicago) at a decent price.
Good luck. You'll still be required to be stabilized locally (with all the bills associated therewith), and cleared for air repatriation (by no means a guarantee).
I have seen ridiculousness (I work both in EMS, and in health insurance software development), like Heli EMS for serious car accidents to a trauma center being denied due to lack of pre-approval.
This might also provide a cautionary tale between 'what is promised, and what you get':
https://medium.com/@ryanbadger/how-insure-and-go-left-me-wit...
and associated HN comments on the above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548285