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Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

reuters.com

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Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

fhbdukfrh wrote: post #59
anoncoward111 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you, but it's physically impossible for all developers to merely find a better job. Some can, but not all can, because of the limited number of companies out there. As a result, we really should force employers to treat us better rather than viewing us as replaceable. They also need to learn that their way shouldn't be the only way.

How do you force employers to treat you better, some sort of artificial regulation? We've never had greater labor mobility, remote options or demand for software developers; I question your premise of limited number of companies.

Unions. Laws. Collective action. Artificial regulation.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#62

Post by anoncoward111 »

fhbdukfrh wrote: post #59
anoncoward111 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you, but it's physically impossible for all developers to merely find a better job. Some can, but not all can, because of the limited number of companies out there. As a result, we really should force employers to treat us better rather than viewing us as replaceable. They also need to learn that their way shouldn't be the only way.

How do you force employers to treat you better, some sort of artificial regulation? We've never had greater labor mobility, remote options or demand for software developers; I question your premise of limited number of companies.

I definitely see where you are coming from, and I personally wouldn't recommend "formal" actions like regulation or unionization.

I've been considering my options lately and the more I think about it, the more I hear "contracting" as one of the better ways to make liveable money without losing control over your working conditions + dialogue with client(s).

When you have constant, daily interaction with middle managers who are trying to become VPs or whatever, it can be extremely grating. Workplace politics, policies, and appearances are all created by these people so that they can protect their jobs and future bonuses.

So, perhaps consulting + contracting will create a barrier between you and the middle managers. They're forced to work with you more collaboratively because the CEO signs the checks on this one (hopefully), not the individual department you work for.

But yeah, out of the thousands of corporations and startups of all ages, industries, and sizes, I bet only 10% or less have an efficient, enjoyable, and equitable experience between low-ranking employees and their layers of management.

That's what is causing all the job-hopping and attempts to "trade-up" ;)

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#63

Post by fhbdukfrh »

assblaster wrote: post #56
Sharlin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably makes you quite an outlier.

The question I have is... Why am I an outlier? What if this could work at a corporate level where employees are happier because they can work more hours some days and fewer hours on other days? Instead of 8 hour work days each week with 6 weeks of vacation, wouldn't it be nicer to work just 5 hours a day for 365? Or maybe a few days with 3 hour days and a few days with 8 hours? This seems so much more relaxing than c…

If I'm hiring super creative or deep planning or design roles i want "bursty" people who can do super intense periods, more common lower intensity cycles and then recharge for a planned period of time.

If the workload dictates requirements I'd love to find anyone who wanted a constant queue of variable days but I've never met them aside from contractors who want a minimum and will bill extra, but they still seem term-based and want vacation.

At a managerial level i can plan around predictable days off, but not variable days when i need to coordinate more than a few people.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#64

Post by anoncoward111 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #61
fhbdukfrh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you force employers to treat you better, some sort of artificial regulation? We've never had greater labor mobility, remote options or demand for software developers; I question your premise of limited number of companies.

Unions. Laws. Collective action. Artificial regulation.

I would agree with you, but my gf is a unionized respiratory therapist.

Not only are her colleagues and managers extremely mean and unprofessional to her, the hospital executives are actively training the non-union nurses to replace the union respiratory therapists, because "cost".

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#65

Post by fhbdukfrh »

sys_64738 wrote: post #24

I only get stressed when I'm forced to attend stupid meetings. Without meetings a 4 days week would be doable for everybody.

Well it may seem obvious, but work to eliminate "stupid" meetings. Hold people to scheduled start times and time limits. Push hard for agendas and stick to them. Question the need for meetings you think are redundant or unnecessary.

Or do you mean meetings in general?

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#66

Post by johnward »

watwut wrote: post #45

If people are burning out and stressed, then 4 vs 5 days is not issue, but rather total number of hours and overall conditions.

Like me having 20 days worth of vacation but being looked at sideways when I actually try to use them. Giving me more days won't solve the issue.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#67

Post by fhbdukfrh »

rationalfaith wrote: post #4

As long as you're productive and meeting deadlines, I couldn't care less about the "hours" you're in the office. Also, the market well balance itself. If someone is more productive they'll be rewarded more. I just don't want the "equal outcome" crowd to start enforcing equal pay when most of them are clocking in minimum hours and others are over-delivering. This is for merit based companies, which personally I can't…

Meritocracies are better, but even there they generally still manage to some degree by the ass-in-seats proxy.

You can also work to eliminate politics to force a market-based outcome, but it's probably less work to get better at the political game.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#68

Post by fhbdukfrh »

hire_charts wrote: post #35
maxxxxx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Also, the market well balance itself. If someone is more productive they'll be rewarded more." I don't think that's true at all. If you don't spend significant amounts of time on self promotion you will not get rewarded but taken for granted.

In one of my early jobs out of college I had a manager who really got this. He knew I was getting my work done, so our 1:1's turned more into career coaching, and his focus was almost always around improving my "visibility" within the org. Looking back, it's hard to say whether he was genuinely interested in helping me get promoted, or if he just wanted to improve his own visibility by proxy, but either way it worked…

That's how good managers should be measured though, by the success of their charges

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#69

Post by watwut »

rationalfaith wrote: post #4

As long as you're productive and meeting deadlines, I couldn't care less about the "hours" you're in the office. Also, the market well balance itself. If someone is more productive they'll be rewarded more. I just don't want the "equal outcome" crowd to start enforcing equal pay when most of them are clocking in minimum hours and others are over-delivering. This is for merit based companies, which personally I can't…

Meeting deadlines is not function of work productivity and speed. It is purely function of planning and estimation and other management out of control of worker.

Yes, there are slow or lazy workers. Point still stands.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#70

Post by fhbdukfrh »

badpun wrote: post #46
alexashka wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever they do for 10 hours, will be automated in 10 years, by people who work 4 hours or less. My opinion of course :)

Isn't John Carmack able to code for 10+ hours straight? Will he be automated too? :) My point - as much as this forum seems to hate this notion (I usually get downvoted when I point it out), there's variance in human aptitude and stamina.

Ok, but you can't argue that talking in vague generalities is wrong because of one extreme outlier. Sure there's variance, but what does the distribution look like?
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