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Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

reuters.com

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Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#51

Post by godDLL »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #48

For decades, I almost always worked four days a week, 32 hours/week total. Since I was working for mostly large companies, I didn’t make any sort of special deal to do this, I simply took a 20% pay cut. Well worth it. Looking back over the last 35 years, I don’t regret working less at all, with the extra time off spent with friends and family, and giving me time to write several books.

I could never negotiate that, so I quit the industry after 10-ish years and went into "leaner life-style, honest day's work" type of deal. Best thing I did with my life.

Oh, and Wim Hof breathing. Just the breathing, for now.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#52

Post by itamarst »

If you're thinking "but my employer will never do this", there's another alternative: you can negotiate.

As an existing employee you are hugely valuable, you know how things work, the tech stack, the business, who to talk to... Replacing that is hard. So you have a good negotiating position.

It's also possible to negotiate for a shorter workweek at new jobs, though it's more difficult.

I've done this at 3 different companies, and you'll see in the comments here that others have as well. E.g. I interviewed one programmer who has been working 4 days a week for 15 years: https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer...

And if you want to learn how to do this but aren't sure where to begin, I've condensed my experience and research into a book: https://codewithoutrules.com/3dayweekend/

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#53

Post by cpuguy83 »

twblalock wrote: post #44
cpuguy83 wrote: post #18

It's not the number of days but the constant fire drills, everything is always top priority, notifications coming at all hours... and at least with software dev very rarely is it a priority to fix poor quality things thereby making even more fire drills.

If fire drills are the norm rather than the exception, you should find another job because you are working at a poorly run company. There is always a tension between delivering features and delivering quality, but that's no excuse for constant fire drills and notifications. It's possible to handle the tradeoff better than that.

Totally, but that's the point. Most people probably don't actually need an extra day off (I mean, I'd take one, but...) to stymie burnout but rather a calmer, more sane environment when they are working.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#54

Post by assblaster »

parthdesai wrote: post #41
assblaster wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I function by trying to work 7 days a week, without taking time off for vacation. What I've found is that I'm in general much happier having to wake up at a specific time every day with specific work goals. I feel like I'm in a sweet equilibrium with fewer disruptions from going on and off vacation. I make more money, I'm happier at home and work, and I feel better all around.

Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have like doing other things apart from programming? I couldn't imagine going in to work 7 days a week for the entire year which would mean i won't be able to go ski, travel, play soccer league, go camping, hiking etc..

I'm not a programmer. My job has different hour requirements than a typical salaried position.. Sometimes I work 4 hours one day, sometimes 20+ hours. The variability is exciting, almost like a slot machine, some days I get lucky and have a lot of work all day which means more money to spend, other days the work isn't there and I go home by noon (which I consider also being lucky) to play with the kids, work on home projects, go shopping, hang out with wife, watch Netflix/YouTube.

I have gotten so much enjoyment from work and the income it generates that I have decided to put my major hobbies/travel on hold. Maybe if tax law changes in the future punish me for high productivity, then I might cut back and do more non job activities.

I would imagine it is hard for a programmer to maintain this schedule because the pay isn't on the same basis as mine (eat what you kill versus salary). However, certain other aspects of a 7 day workweek apply to being a programmer: if you get tired and don't want to continue working, you can just go home and work on it the next day. No Friday crunch time. No pre vacation crunch time. Every day is more relaxed because you just took two major deadlines off your schedule: Fridays and vacations.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#55

Post by assblaster »

ehickox wrote: post #47
assblaster wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I function by trying to work 7 days a week, without taking time off for vacation. What I've found is that I'm in general much happier having to wake up at a specific time every day with specific work goals. I feel like I'm in a sweet equilibrium with fewer disruptions from going on and off vacation. I make more money, I'm happier at home and work, and I feel better all around.

I'm sorry what? To me, and probably most people, that sounds like workaholism. No vacation? How do you maintain your sanity? Don't you feel the need to disconnect every once in a while?

Don't you get the feeling on vacation that you dread coming back to work? Do you dread the time you're on vacation that you know you're losing on potential income (or not taking care of chores at home)?

I used to take 8+ weeks of vacation, and honestly those years dragged on and on, and my time on vacation was less and less enjoyable because of the dread of coming back to work and the lost income. Now? I'm happy, every single day. I find much more enjoyment every night when I'm home from work because I'm earning good money and I can cherish the respite from the daily work.

1-2 weeks off at a time is just too much time away from work. I think the desire to get away from work is there only because the 5 day on, 2 day off weekly grind is so jarring to the psyche that you absolutely need the extra week off to recover. I'm copacetic working 7/365.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#56

Post by assblaster »

Sharlin wrote: post #20
assblaster wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I function by trying to work 7 days a week, without taking time off for vacation. What I've found is that I'm in general much happier having to wake up at a specific time every day with specific work goals. I feel like I'm in a sweet equilibrium with fewer disruptions from going on and off vacation. I make more money, I'm happier at home and work, and I feel better all around.

That probably makes you quite an outlier.

The question I have is... Why am I an outlier? What if this could work at a corporate level where employees are happier because they can work more hours some days and fewer hours on other days?

Instead of 8 hour work days each week with 6 weeks of vacation, wouldn't it be nicer to work just 5 hours a day for 365? Or maybe a few days with 3 hour days and a few days with 8 hours? This seems so much more relaxing than crunching 8 hour days every work day.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#57

Post by anoncoward111 »

twblalock wrote: post #44
cpuguy83 wrote: post #18

It's not the number of days but the constant fire drills, everything is always top priority, notifications coming at all hours... and at least with software dev very rarely is it a priority to fix poor quality things thereby making even more fire drills.

If fire drills are the norm rather than the exception, you should find another job because you are working at a poorly run company. There is always a tension between delivering features and delivering quality, but that's no excuse for constant fire drills and notifications. It's possible to handle the tradeoff better than that.

Agree with you, but it's physically impossible for all developers to merely find a better job. Some can, but not all can, because of the limited number of companies out there.

As a result, we really should force employers to treat us better rather than viewing us as replaceable. They also need to learn that their way shouldn't be the only way.

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#58

Post by amatthew »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #48

For decades, I almost always worked four days a week, 32 hours/week total. Since I was working for mostly large companies, I didn’t make any sort of special deal to do this, I simply took a 20% pay cut. Well worth it. Looking back over the last 35 years, I don’t regret working less at all, with the extra time off spent with friends and family, and giving me time to write several books.

How did you manage to negotiate that? Especially for earlier career jobs?

Re: Burnout, stress lead more companies to try a four-day work week

#59

Post by fhbdukfrh »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #57
twblalock wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If fire drills are the norm rather than the exception, you should find another job because you are working at a poorly run company. There is always a tension between delivering features and delivering quality, but that's no excuse for constant fire drills and notifications. It's possible to handle the tradeoff better than that.

Agree with you, but it's physically impossible for all developers to merely find a better job. Some can, but not all can, because of the limited number of companies out there. As a result, we really should force employers to treat us better rather than viewing us as replaceable. They also need to learn that their way shouldn't be the only way.

How do you force employers to treat you better, some sort of artificial regulation?

We've never had greater labor mobility, remote options or demand for software developers; I question your premise of limited number of companies.

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