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Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

bloomberg.com

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Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#61

Post by danesparza »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #47
danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

Why can't these men just learn Look what you have not said: "Why can't these women just learn ..." Somewhow you only seem to require men to do things? Are you arguing that it's acceptable for women falsely to accuse men? Ask yourself: what have you done to ensure that women not falsely accuse men? Have you had "the talk" with your daughters about false accusations?

The men are in a position of power.

Side note: How many women have been accused of sexual harassment?

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#62

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

csense wrote: post #43
hodgesrm wrote: post #38

> Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.” It's kind of astonishing how long it takes some people see this obvious answer. Expert hint: It also solves a lot of other workplace issues as well.

How does that protect you from false accusations?

That's a negligible risk. https://web.archive.org/web/20180101025446/https://icdv.idah...

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#63

Post by throwaway5250 »

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

> Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

This sort of willful misunderstanding of concerns feels like a subtle gaslighting campaign.

The vast majority of men being discussed here have zero problems in their treatment of women. They quite rationally have calculated that being around women at work is now a significant risk to them, with little or no upside in return, so they're bowing out.

You can preach all you like, but in my experience it's almost impossible to get people to act against their own self-interest, especially when the welfare of their loved ones is on the line.

Welcome to the new normal.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#64

Post by gsich »

neaden wrote: post #24
bussierem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Hey, can you show me some of these well documented instances? The Duke Lacross case gets brought up a lot, but all those guys were exonerated and as far as I'm aware doing fine. Kavanaugh just got appointed to the Supreme Court and Lois C.K is popping up to do comedy sets, so I'm curious to see these many well documented cases you refer to.

A case in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Kachelmann Alice Schwarzer (german feminist) accused him even after he was found not guilty. Had to pay a fine because of that.

Again Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina-Lisa_Lohfink

The matress stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_rape_contr...

But we know of those only because they were public figures or have been carried out in public. You don't hear about the private ones.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#65

Post by briandear »

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

As we saw with the Kavanaugh hearings, a mere accusation is enough to unleash hell-fires. There is a large part of society that follows the “believe” culture which is what I suspect causes the fear. Nobody should be “belived” — evidence, corroboration and due process should be required. These days, a woman can literally accuse any man of anything and the man’s reputation can be destroyed. With Kavanaugh, some of the allegations brought by Avenatti were being treated as credible and having actually happened until they were proven to have been ridiculous.

However, I think public figure/political circumstances are the outlier and don’t agree with the concept of avoiding women. That’s just dumb on a number of levels. But I can understand the risk-adverse thinking. Ironically, the crowd screaming to “believe her” despite a lack of evidence actually caused more harm to women in the long run since the implication is that a women accusing anyone of anything is going to be “believed” regardless of evidence and without a consideration of due process. That’s a scary place to be as a man, knowing that a mere accusation and public flogging awaits even if there is no evidence of any wrongdoing having occurred.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#69

Post by bradleyankrom »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #47
danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

Why can't these men just learn Look what you have not said: "Why can't these women just learn ..." Somewhow you only seem to require men to do things? Are you arguing that it's acceptable for women falsely to accuse men? Ask yourself: what have you done to ensure that women not falsely accuse men? Have you had "the talk" with your daughters about false accusations?

where is the data suggesting women are falsely accusing men of assault at anything approching a significant rate?

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#70

Post by neaden »

tomp wrote: post #46
neaden wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, can you show me some of these well documented instances? The Duke Lacross case gets brought up a lot, but all those guys were exonerated and as far as I'm aware doing fine. Kavanaugh just got appointed to the Supreme Court and Lois C.K is popping up to do comedy sets, so I'm curious to see these many well documented cases you refer to.

A few outhers are: Oxford Union president, Jian Gomeshi, "The Mattress Girl".

I'm not familiar with the Oxford Union president. Jian Gomeshi was credibly accused, the fact that he was found not guilty does not mean his accuser was false. I don't know why you include Emma Sulkowicz, I know of no evidence at all that she falsely accused someone. Also Jian Gomeshi is writing articles for the New York Review of Books and the man Emma Sulkowicz accused graduated, so neither of their lives were ruined.
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