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What Makes .NET Core So Special?

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Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#61

Post by bonesss »

dustinmoris wrote: post #48
xps wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's unnecessarily angry at Microsoft. Of course they have to sell something . They offer some great tools for free (as in free speech) and you still complain that their MVPs promote their own paid services at their conferences?

Well Visual Studio is certainly not free (maybe the community edition) and therefore I don't think I deserve to be littered with Azure ads all over a tool which costs already a lot of money. However, my main complaint is not that they advertise their own products, which is absolutely fine, but the way how it is done is starving the .NET community from anything else but Microsoft. The way how all their .NET products a…

I don't think this issue is unique to MS, but thanks to their historical business markets (Office, small-to-medium businesses), and product portfolio the sense is that many Azure services are spider-webs of related products. That feeling that you can't just use a component in isolation, but that other tightly bound products are often the only way to serve reasonable services.

They've made substantial efforts and improvements, so credit where credit is due. I think the broader .Net community needs to pull their thumbs out and take a hard look at why C# OSS has struggled the way it has, and how the ecosystem should be maturing.

The cross-platform, OSS-friendly, orientation of the F# community has been much more reflective of my technical concerns, platforms, desires, and predelictions.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#62

Post by knocte »

soulwatcher wrote: post #4

Many of the features (Dependency injection, etc) seem only to be available for ASP.Net Core. What about cross platform desktop applications? Do we have a GUI layer that is cross platform as well?

Xamarin.Forms is cross platform (not only mobile, also desktop) while native look&feel. Don't use Electron.NET, that's a waste of CPU cycles.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#63

Post by oblio »

mathw wrote: post #54
hvidgaard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree that AWS and GCP are clearly better than Azure - but I'm not been neck deep in all three so I cannot definitively say so. But Azure is moving fast. > Visual Studio is littered with SQL server and Azure tools which doesn't even make sense. Either offer equal tools for all major tech or none, but this subconscious constant selling of their own tools sickens me slowly. Of course they support their o…

Live unit testing is great, assuming your company pay for the Enterprise edition which is the only one which has it. (Mine doesn't).

Resharper has it for a fraction of the price.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#64

Post by bonesss »

bsaul wrote: post #59
nikofeyn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.net is not equal to c#. f# has all of that and a much cleaner syntax than rust.

isn’t f# a second class citizen in .net core ? last time i checked you still needed to install mono to get some sort of autocompletion on vscode. And all the official tutorials were still in C# only.

F# is a "second class citizen" for all .Net tooling from MS, as C# is more popular. Luckily it is a first class citizen in language capabilities, and is years ahead of C# on that front ;)

Ionide doesn't seem to require mono, ATM, for tooling in VS Code. VS Community Edition on the mac has autocomplete, full F# support (better than VS2017 in some areas), I think that might be cross-platform too (it might want Mono installed for other reasons, though).

The transition to .Net core has had some start-n-stop moments, and delays in core components that couldn't start until the framework was relatively mature. So on the fringes of tooling there have been some issues that had to wait for multiple dependencies to resolve. A delivers to B delivers to C delivers to D, and then we get a nice IDE.

Most MSDN documentation has parallel examples in C# and F#. There were offical F# tutorials, examples, demos, and templates at RTM, though the editor situation was grim due to the .Net Core project format wars. Those have since been resolved.

In general, though, the C# code from early tutorials will be relevant and easy to port as F# code is highly code-compatible with most normal C# code.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#65

Post by mattmanser »

dustinmoris wrote: post #48
xps wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's unnecessarily angry at Microsoft. Of course they have to sell something . They offer some great tools for free (as in free speech) and you still complain that their MVPs promote their own paid services at their conferences?

Well Visual Studio is certainly not free (maybe the community edition) and therefore I don't think I deserve to be littered with Azure ads all over a tool which costs already a lot of money. However, my main complaint is not that they advertise their own products, which is absolutely fine, but the way how it is done is starving the .NET community from anything else but Microsoft. The way how all their .NET products a…

I use git inside VS, it's fine, I've a few minor quibbles, but all the GUI git tools I've used are a bit shit (tortoisegit, GitHub for Windows).

The built in support for GitHub is fine, so you can stop moaning about VSTS.

Also, you don't have to use azure or SQL server. You can close those tools and, poof, it's done.

One of the more ironic things is that there's a growing dissatisfaction with MS precisely because they're making it more flexible.

Lots of people just want stuff that works with no config, no mucking around with command line tools.

That MS are proudly going 'run dotnet blah' is actually, in a lot of ways, a bad thing. Why can't I just click a button, and why clutter tutorials with lots of pointless command lines?

The 'no hassle, no fucking around with shitty console tools' programming alternative is going away.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#66

Post by miguelrochefort »

euske wrote: post #13

What about client-side apps? Is it possible to write a cross platform client app with .NET Core, a la Electron way? That would be my dream framework. I've been waiting for it for decades, seriously. (I looked at Avalonia UI and mono/xwt. Not sure how stable/reliable they are.)

https://github.com/nventive/Uno

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#68

Post by alkonaut »

dustinmoris wrote: post #48
xps wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's unnecessarily angry at Microsoft. Of course they have to sell something . They offer some great tools for free (as in free speech) and you still complain that their MVPs promote their own paid services at their conferences?

Well Visual Studio is certainly not free (maybe the community edition) and therefore I don't think I deserve to be littered with Azure ads all over a tool which costs already a lot of money. However, my main complaint is not that they advertise their own products, which is absolutely fine, but the way how it is done is starving the .NET community from anything else but Microsoft. The way how all their .NET products a…

Github was one of the best integrated services in VS even before ms bought it. But that's beside the point- the point is this: it's on Google and Amazon to make the development story good for their platforms.

So Google and Amazon should be scrambling to perfect the deployment plugins for VS. True, microsoft is SELLING (some editions of) VS - but there I'm sure they weigh both demand from customers AND the potential earnings. If AWS and Azure features are equally in demand, of course they will focus on their Azure features first because they have benfits for Ms.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#69

Post by bonesss »

soulwatcher wrote: post #4

Many of the features (Dependency injection, etc) seem only to be available for ASP.Net Core. What about cross platform desktop applications? Do we have a GUI layer that is cross platform as well?

My personal opinion is that people are sleeping on local HTML apps.

Local files, if you want, make everything lightning fast. Hosting your own web-browser lets you hook into whatever you want, and handle it however you want. A local server makes hosting whatever you want simple, too. There's a pre-existing plugin and component model for serving rich content... Every knows HTML and CSS, and sharding off chunks of the app to a genuine web app is straightforward...

A well factored, MVVM, WPF should be relatively easy to port to this model, and there are mature databinding libraries to handle the plumbing...

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather take the pain points of a known technology than another 10 years of uncertainty and no cross-platform story.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#70

Post by oblio »

ahoka wrote: post #37
rtpg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well.. I think some people might think "well I need to go faster than Node... so do I need to go to C? Java is slow too. But the C library ecosystem is _rough_...." Nice infrastructure around the language + speed +... not being Rust (with all the difficulties that come with the language)? Is pretty interesting

>>some people might think "well I need to go faster than Node... so do I need to go to C? Java is slow too. But the C library ecosystem is _rough_...." They would be utterly mistaken on all accounts.

That "all" makes for a bold claim.

"well I need to go faster than Node..."

.NET is generally faster than Node.js, at least based on most benchmarks I've seen.

" so do I need to go to C?"

Is there any other official/stable extension mechanism for Node?

"Java is slow too."

That one, I agree, is false. Java is at least as fast as .NET.

"But the C library ecosystem is _rough_...."

The C library ecosystem is very rough. The lack of memory management and the overall creakiness of C showing its age are easily apparent.

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