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Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

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Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#61

Post by screye »

denzil_correa wrote: post #47
maltalex wrote: post #24

I don't see what's surprising here. This is the ski rental problem [0]. Would it surprise anyone to learn that renting a car is more expensive in the long run compared to buying one? This is the same thing, only the time scales are different. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_rental_problem

So, what's the optimal solution according to the Ski Rental problem?

If you have no prior knowledge of how often you will be skiing, then the optimal solution is exactly 50% the cost of buying the skis upfront.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#62

Post by 21 »

tfolbrecht wrote: post #46
psergeant wrote: post #4

> Nvidia contractually prohibits the use of GeForce and Titan cards in datacenters. So Amazon and other providers have to use the $8,500 datacenter version of the GPUs, and they have to charge a lot for renting it.

Curious of the MTBF (mean time between failure) rate of a GefForce/Titan series GPU under continuous utilization in datacenter conditions vs a desktop computer with intermittent usage. I don't want to believe Nvidia is just out to stiff cloud providers. Maybe it's to protect themselves from warranty abuse?

People who do crypto mining use consumer GPUs, and run them 24/7. You would imagine if it was cheaper overall to buy the datacenter edition they would. But they don't.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#63

Post by screye »

psergeant wrote: post #4

> Nvidia contractually prohibits the use of GeForce and Titan cards in datacenters. So Amazon and other providers have to use the $8,500 datacenter version of the GPUs, and they have to charge a lot for renting it.

Is Nvidia doing this only because they are a monopoly in the space and practically extorting here ?

Or are there any genuine costs associated with data center gpu models ?

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#64

Post by ofrzeta »

pizzapill wrote: post #27
ofrzeta wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restriction is on the drivers.

We're going full circle here. The EULAs, licenses etc. of US companies that try to restrict how you can use the Hardware/Software you bought are void in Germany (probably most of EU too) and can be ignored. In many cases they void other (legal) parts of those licenses too since the license is partly illegal.

I don't think that's universally true concerning software. I tried to do some research on the jurisdiction in the EU but got to no definitive conclusion.

However in case of reselling software the corresponding restriction is obviously seen as illegal (or non-binding) in the EU. On the other hand there are restrictions such as copying, running software X on Y computers etc that are valid and binding.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#65

Post by snaky »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Do you count the time needed to make them? Butter, sugar, and flour aren't expensive.

This is usually the case for this kind of thing, yes. Cheap biscuits are a really cheap bulk product while the margins on the fresh ingredients are higher, and people making their own are doing so as a hobby luxury.

And I wouldn't think those cheap cookies are made from the same quality ingredients you'd made it from.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#66

Post by swebs »

yazr wrote: post #31
maltalex wrote: post #24

I don't see what's surprising here. This is the ski rental problem [0]. Would it surprise anyone to learn that renting a car is more expensive in the long run compared to buying one? This is the same thing, only the time scales are different. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_rental_problem

Because the cloud has economies of scale and benefits from specialization (cheaper power, bulk buying prices, remote land prices, etc) Hence, some of these saving should be passed on to consumers and it should be cheaper. The counter argument is that the cloud is over-engineered (redundancy, backups, better software) for enterprise customers. You u are paying for all these benefits whether u want to or not.

I've seen just the opposite. A VPS from a cloud provider is often 2-3x the cost of an equivalent Linode.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#67

Post by chupasaurus »

ofrzeta wrote: post #25
tpetry wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Companies are not allowed to restrict the (legal) usage of something i bought. The only thing they can do is refusing support if i used their product in any means not covered by the license terms, but even this is really hard for them in reality. It‘s the same with no-resell license terms. Within the EU companies cant forbid me reselling something i bought.

The restriction is on the drivers.

I.e. russian law voids any prohibition on reverse engineering of software.

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#68

Post by snaky »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #39
raverbashing wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last time I checked baking my own cookies is more expensive than just buying a bag at Walmart. Yes, but most likely they aren't of comparable quality

Quite likely, the Walmart ones are better, at least if it comes to taste and looks. Unless you're an expert baker. And then your cookies probably still aren't better, you will just claim they are, and it's polite to agree with that assessment. In fact, it's polite in our society to agree that any half-good DIY attempt has better quality than commercial equivalent, even though it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Only with taste and looks. Maybe.

> Even Walmart’s “Great Value 100% Whole Wheat Bread” contains seven ingredients that Whole Foods considers “unacceptable”: high fructose corn syrup, sodium stearoyl lactylate, ethoxylated diglycerides, DATEM, azodicarbonamide, ammonium chloride, and calcium propionate.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/whole_...

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#69

Post by syntaxing »

There's also a great series on STH where they build a couple different configurations from budget versions (~$800) to more expensive version (~$16000)

[1] https://www.servethehome.com/deeplearning02-sub-800-ai-machi... [2] https://www.servethehome.com/deeplearning11-10x-nvidia-gtx-1...

Re: Building your own deep learning computer is 10x cheaper than AWS

#70

Post by VHRanger »

dagw wrote: post #29

You're forgetting the cost of fighting IT in a bureaucratic corporation to get them to let you buy/run non-standard hardware Much easier to spend huge amounts of money of Azure/AWS and politely tell them it's their own fucking fault when they complain about the costs. (what me? no I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)

They seriously can't buy a graphics card and slap it in the PCIe slot?
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