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The European Union versus the Internet

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61–70 of 211 posts

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#61
post #40

So there's a lot of coverage about the EU parliament process, but where did the drive for this copyright directive come from? There seems to very little coverage on how this directive came about. Whose interests are being represented by these changes?

Economic interests. EU governments are seeing the majority of digital revenues carted off to american coffers and want a bigger slice to remain in europe to bolster its lagging economy.

If this were the case, I think it's much more likely the EU would try and achieve this via changes to tax law for corporations operating within the EU than copyright directives.

There's been a lot of press about how little tax the Google's and Starbucks of the world pay in the places they derive the revenue, and some of the highly creative ways they avoid (not evade) taxation. That would seem to point at issues with international taxation agreements rather than copyright.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#62
IMHO, It should be up to the respective authorities to decide if things are covered by copyright or not. Following this ridiculous proposal, THEY should be the ones to provide the relevant tools and services to service providers to enforce this ludicrous position.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also found the reaction interesting because even techies here were overwhelmingly in favour of GDPR. Mainly because it is so similar to data protection that's been in place for 20 years and they have been used to implementing without problem. That included founders and executives within companies. Thanks to the profile of people I know that's been mainly in smaller companies. Most of the negative opinion I heard wa…

I think the maximum penalty = always penalty sort of misunderstanding tends to appear when programmers look at the law. Technical people tend to look at the laws in a technical way. Does this equal a violation or does it not? If it does, what will it cost? Judicious opinion or "We'll know it when we see it" rarely sits well with those of us who are used to cementing behavior into lines of code. Existing laws we alrea…

Existing laws we already operate under have much more severe maximum penalties than people realize, and judges are (relatively) reasonable at applying them correctly.

I don't think the system is working well at all. We have a situation where vague laws with severe penalties allow prosecutors to grossly overcharge. This is then used to coerce the accused into waiving their rights to a trial, in return for the certainty of a more limited punishment.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perception and view of the US and it's culture also slightly shifted after GDPR came into spotlight (same conclusions as yours). Just the other day I ended up in a discussion with a US citizen (it started completely harmless and away from culture/politics) and ended up in the same corner: "EU is bad because it limits your freedom, US is great because it gives you freedom". The problem is - the argument (my underst…

Idk how you can argue the EU values people over corporate interest while this copyright law is on it's way to being passed. Here's one of the many articles about what's wrong with it. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/06/eus-copyright-proposal...

It's one of thousands of laws, but sure, this one is the definitive indicator of the EU's values.

Maybe we could try to find a single US law that we don't like and dismiss America just as readily?

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree with this. GDPR is a shining beacon of success and it blows my mind that it came from the same clowns that made the cookie law. They covered my internet with cookie banner graffiti and now they want to mess with something as fundamental as a hyperlink.

GDPR is absolutely not the shining beacon of success. Let's review at some glaring, obvious and 100%-lets-make-this-law-shite points: 1. Application and enforcement: GDPR is 100% arbitrarily enforced, it is a "trust us, we could do no harm, trust us" law, that is extremely well suited to adding other such "trust us" laws. 2. Absolutely ridiculous overreach: on a technical level, GDPR is braindead. It applies ridiculo…

3. No, you cannot serve any EU customers if there is not option to "opt out" of any unnecessary processing

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#66

It's not just the EU that the Internet is in danger of. A Labour MP in the UK announced a bill that wants to curtail "closed" forums on social media [0]. Analysis on the topic [1]. [0]: https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/3062557/mp-plans-laws-to-ope... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eobVBf5S8uM

That's absolutely ridiculous. Is she going to let us listen in on all her private phone calls? Read all her emails? Please tell me this has no hope of passing...

It's a Ten-minute rule bill. Ten-minute rule bills have no hope of passing. You're welcome.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#67
post #51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the former attitude is known to be totally ineffective. The latter is possibly effective, at the cost of being (possibly?) extremely damaging.

I don't use any social media, how is that ineffective?

You're still tracked, analyzed, and targeted both on and off the web by thousands of companies. Not to mention government snooping and surveillance. Even the social media giants which you deliberately never signed up for are still collecting and monetizing data on you.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#68
post #18

In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law. Everybody is…

I 100% agree with this. GDPR is a shining beacon of success and it blows my mind that it came from the same clowns that made the cookie law. They covered my internet with cookie banner graffiti and now they want to mess with something as fundamental as a hyperlink.

And now it is covered also in GDPR banner graffiti…

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#69
I will come out and say I don't agree with this portrayal of EU legislation being absurd. Time and again we're discussing what's wrong with the current web landscape: commoditization of content, leading into an attention economy with tracking and surveillance, and concentration of ad spend and most money to be made in the hands of very few players. If creators don't get their share of profits made using their works, this won't sustain further content creation. YouTube and file sharing sites can not shrug and say "we're just running the platform" when they disproportionally benefit and leave content creators with a pittance if anything.

Now that the EU actually wants to do something about it, the law is being denounced as lobbied by big media, but, to the contrary, the current status quo only serves Google et al. I have my reservations about the feasibility of content filtering, but "EU vs the Internet" is coming from an internet "mob" mindset having come to expect everything to be free (as in FREE of direct cost) immediately and without friction. "The Internet" is not consumers, but made by creators. In fact, I'm cautiously optimistic this (and the GDPR) legislation will benefit smaller publishers and diversity and bring back unproblematic syndication and end-user content aggregation via RSS or similar.

The EU is first and foremost a common market and concerned with creating fair economical conditions. Obviously, the web is stuck (economically) in a quasi-monopolistic situation. The EU Commission/Parliament is attempting to do exactly what is necessary to re-establish desirable market conditions. If they'd do nothing, this would question their very reason for existence; they're not in for establishing state- or other monopolies. Along these lines, what the EU should consider next is to establish workable e-payment standards and legislation.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the maximum penalty = always penalty sort of misunderstanding tends to appear when programmers look at the law. Technical people tend to look at the laws in a technical way. Does this equal a violation or does it not? If it does, what will it cost? Judicious opinion or "We'll know it when we see it" rarely sits well with those of us who are used to cementing behavior into lines of code. Existing laws we alrea…

Existing laws we already operate under have much more severe maximum penalties than people realize, and judges are (relatively) reasonable at applying them correctly. I don't think the system is working well at all. We have a situation where vague laws with severe penalties allow prosecutors to grossly overcharge. This is then used to coerce the accused into waiving their rights to a trial, in return for the certaint…

In America.

In Germany "deals" are very much not liked by the law profession, and only a very limited form of it has been put into law. And even that is very sharply debated in the profession.

Add to it that prosecutors actually do look for mitigating circumstances, and do not regularly appeal a verdict that they feel is a bit too low, thus preventing the appellate court from handing down a harsher sentence, making the appeal risk-free for the defendant.

It's not all roses here, but you also shouldn't assume that this "either plead guilty and accept five years or risk three hundred years" is a universal property of judicial systems.

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