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How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

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Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#61

Post by irrational »

enraged_camel wrote: post #35
irrational wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him This sounds like me. I once went to a week long conference where I realized at the end that during the entire week I could count on 2 hands the number of words I had spoken to other people during that time. I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts. Or as Jane Austen wrote,…

>>I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts. I used to believe this about myself too. Then one day I came to the profound realization that I do in fact have both the need and the desire to talk to others. I had just been suppressing it by using my own thoughts as a distraction.

Well, I’ve been married for 23 years and we have 7 kids. Plus I have tons of friends. I have no problem finding people to talk to. But I know myself. I truly have no need or desire to talk to others.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#62

Post by frereubu »

closeparen wrote: post #51
newscracker wrote: post #28

There’s one more state — a new kind of “alone connectedness” that most people seem to prefer, which has been fostered and magnified by the Internet and social platforms (I include HN as one of those). Without even communicating with others, even if there are known people in physical proximity, many people feel connected just by being “lurkers” in their favorite corners of the Internet. This is not like passive watchi…

Same for cities. If anything, I have a weaker social network after moving to a big city, but the ambient energy makes me feel less alone.

When I was single and lived in London, I used to love walking through the city during the evening and into the night, being surrounded by people but not having to take part in any socialising. It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#63

Post by crooked-v »

frereubu wrote: post #62
closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for cities. If anything, I have a weaker social network after moving to a big city, but the ambient energy makes me feel less alone.

When I was single and lived in London, I used to love walking through the city during the evening and into the night, being surrounded by people but not having to take part in any socialising. It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.

> It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.

Thank you. You've just given words to the je ne sais quoi that's hung around me when it comes to enjoying city living as a complete introvert.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#64

Post by rland »

some_account wrote: post #3
tunap wrote: post #2

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. Blaise Pascal

People have become so incredibly needy of others approval and attention that some of us don't even function properly when being alone. This makes us incredibly week as well, totally dependent on others to feel good.

We are totally dependent on others to feel good. It is how we are wired as social creatures. Every single person, without exception, begins their life needy of another's approval and attention. The attention of others is how we construct ourselves.

Over time, we lose part but not all of that need, in different ways, depending on the interpersonal dynamic with our parents. A healthy person's end result is a healthy balance of dependence: too much can be limiting to a person's own agency, while too little means a miserable, lonely existence.

It's not weak to be dependent on others. On the contrary, it requires emotional strength — a strength which is built. Typically by families, but sometimes by close friends, caregivers, or significant others.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#65

Post by [deleted] »

majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

[deleted]

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#66

Post by SSLy »

crooked-v wrote: post #63
frereubu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was single and lived in London, I used to love walking through the city during the evening and into the night, being surrounded by people but not having to take part in any socialising. It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands.

> It's the flipside to the pleasure of being entirely alone when hillwalking in the middle of the Scottish highlands. Thank you. You've just given words to the je ne sais quoi that's hung around me when it comes to enjoying city living as a complete introvert.

Now put on Burial on your headphones and have the complete experience of a solitude in a big City.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#67

Post by majos »

Senderman wrote: post #48
majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

This comment might sound like I'm being difficult, but I'm genuinely asking. You imply a downside for Bob in his avoidance of shared-vulnerability-relationship, you didn't explicitly state it - you said it hurts others who have expectations over him. Maybe the details of their marriage, which are none of my business, are where the answer is - but my question is: what is the downside for him?

Bob still loves Alice, so something that hurts Alice hurts Bob.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#68

Post by majos »

Baeocystin wrote: post #55
majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

> Relationships with other people can become strained if you are at least approximately self-sufficient. If I (or anyone) is happier in solitude than in interacting with person X, it strikes me as quite patronizing to come to the conclusion that 'gosh, they may feel weak, better throw them a bone.' It simply means that the two people in question should probably seek out others to meet their respective companionship n…

Hmm, maybe I phrased my original comment incorrectly. I'm not trying to say that self-sufficiency is bad, but rather that loneliness is not entirely bad, and indeed a little neediness maybe appreciated by people close to you. I think at least low levels of this need are present in almost everybody, even many HN stoic types who've come to believe that true self-sufficiency is a worthy goal. Especially for those people, I think paying attention to that kind of loneliness can actually be good.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#69

Post by tokai »

I see some of you commenting about being introvert and liking to be alone, but still feeling the sting of loneliness. I just wanted to share an excerpt from the abstract of Robert Burton's wonderful Anatomy of Melancholy published in 1621. I think the alternating allure of solitude is at the base of being human.

  Friends and companions get you gone,
  'Tis my desire to be alone;
  Ne'er well but when my thoughts and I
  Do domineer in privacy.
  No Gem, no treasure like to this,
  'Tis my delight, my crown, my bliss.
  All my joys to this are folly,
  Naught so sweet as melancholy.
  
  'Tis my sole plague to be alone,
  I am a beast, a monster grown,
  I will no light nor company,
  I find it now my misery.
  The scene is turn'd, my joys are gone,
  Fear, discontent, and sorrows come.
  All my griefs to this are jolly,
  Naught so fierce as melancholy.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#70

Post by Baeocystin »

majos wrote: post #68
Baeocystin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relationships with other people can become strained if you are at least approximately self-sufficient. If I (or anyone) is happier in solitude than in interacting with person X, it strikes me as quite patronizing to come to the conclusion that 'gosh, they may feel weak, better throw them a bone.' It simply means that the two people in question should probably seek out others to meet their respective companionship n…

Hmm, maybe I phrased my original comment incorrectly. I'm not trying to say that self-sufficiency is bad, but rather that loneliness is not entirely bad, and indeed a little neediness maybe appreciated by people close to you. I think at least low levels of this need are present in almost everybody, even many HN stoic types who've come to believe that true self-sufficiency is a worthy goal. Especially for those people…

I don't think we particularly disagree overall- I completely agree with you in that most everyone appreciates feeling useful and helpful to the ones we care about.

It is just that I chafe at the word neediness. Speaking just for myself- If I were to suddenly succumb to the Bus Factor, I know all of my friends would be just fine. Sad, but fine. They don't 'need' me. (This is not a self-esteem issue- the same is true in reverse.) But this actually makes me feel good, in the sense that I have trust in them to carry on doing the things we all enjoy, even if something bad happens to any one of us. We still improve each other's lives while we're here! I feel that this is a healthy form of peer relationship. Compare that to a situation where someone genuinely 'needs' something about our relationship. At that point, it becomes more of a caretaker role, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't personally see it as nearly as comforting, in either direction.

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