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Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

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Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#61

Post by tsuabing »

mattigames wrote: post #5

An indirect reminder that now that YC China is a thing @sama and @paulg and any other affiliated will have to avoid saying anything negative about China in order to keep doing business there.

I'm Taiwanese, and I would have second and third thought about applying to YC, given the relationship Sam wants to have with Chinese government.

I would imagine that muslims, people from Hong Kong and Tibet, Japan, Vietnam, people that would prefer democracies over authoritarian governments, libertarians, techies that treasure freedom on the net, would hesitate and would not apply to YC for moral reasons.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#62

Post by rrmm »

eahman07 wrote: post #54
Kalium wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

I'm not pleading for exceptions to human rights, I'm saying human rights is a concept that has to be abandoned because they are nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will all around the world. That's why they are selectively applied: nobody bats an eye about Israel or Saudi Arabia or China[1], but Syria couldn't defend themselves, so bombs away. [1] China are not friends of the US, that's why they ar…

Lots of people bat many eyes as well as organize against and boycott goods from those places. Saying that human rights are 'nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will' is wrong on its face. Sure they can be used an excuse for intervention, but human rights have been a goal starting within the west itself (e.g. the struggle for racial equality in the US).

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#63

Post by Kalium »

chrischen wrote: post #57
Kalium wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

eahman07 has a point. Whether or not you truly believe China abuses fundamental human rights more than any other group, the reality is that the usage by the West has historically been a political tool used for political warfare . It tends to lose its credibility and legitimacy with the kettle calling the teapot black if the accusation gets thrown around liberally. A much better way than mindless reactionism is to loo…

You're absolutely right. The concept of human rights has been, is, and likely will be used as a smokescreen to disguise dishonest and greedy grabs for power.

All of this is true. All of this is real. All of this is tragic and painful and extracts a price in human suffering.

You're absolutely, completely, 100% right. In every possible way, with no exceptions whatsoever. There is much work to be done, and abuses make it harder than it needs to be. These abuses can, should, and must stop.

Yet, it's perhaps possible that none of these abuses should be understood as invalidating the very notion of basic human rights.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#64

Post by TimothyBJacobs »

InitialLastName wrote: post #56
danso wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign journalists based in China write critical stories about China on a regular basis. It's a bit bizarre to me why you're calling Buzzfeed a "click-bate [sic]" rag when we're talking about a journalist who had just published an investigative story about the Chinese police state involving Uyghurs.

I can understand calling Buzzfeed clickbait; "XX Best ways to N: number 6 will blow your mind" used to be their bread and butter. Even now, the #2 story on their website is "29 things that'll genuinely make people say 'OMG I love your outfit'". It took me a long time after their move towards occasionally funding "real" journalism before I was willing to even click a link to their URL.

Buzzfeed clickbait is not the same as Buzzfeed News.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#65

Post by dang »

eahman06 wrote: post #14

Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. Say what you will but they're finding a solution to the Muslim problem, something the west doesn't have the balls to do (and by the time we come up with something it'll be too late)

We've banned this account for trolling. Would you please not create accounts to break HN's rules with?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17820928 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#67

Post by dang »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #29

I wonder how many pro-China green accounts, accounts used solely for anti-US sentiment, etc we will see commenting on this story. It seems the propaganda folks are turning more attention to HN. There were 3 at the time of this posting with the usual bothersiderisms, etc. One even went full "Sharia law in the US!"

Please don't break the site guidelines by insinuating astroturfing or shillage without evidence. Someone having an opposing view to yours is not evidence. Neither is an account being new.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#68

Post by dang »

chronic1921 wrote: post #26
willstrafach wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you believe the “problem” is, exactly? What will it be “too late” for?

1. Muslims come to the US 2. Progressives embrace them 3. Muslims slowly acquire voting majority in specific regions 4. Muslims start implementing Sharia Law (aka religious law) in the US due to the number of voters and democratic voting principles of the US. 5. Progressives will complain about their slow loss of rights, but can't do anything about it. 6. The US becomes an Islam-controlled territory. That's the probl…

Oh for platypus' sake.

We've banned this account. Would you please not create accounts to break HN's rules with?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#69

Post by curiousgal »

justinzollars wrote: post #15
mattigames wrote: post #5

An indirect reminder that now that YC China is a thing @sama and @paulg and any other affiliated will have to avoid saying anything negative about China in order to keep doing business there.

Miss out in the future number one market on earth or stand up for human rights? Certainly a scary future.

> stand up for human rights

Can we all just get off our high horse? We literally have concentration camps at our borders and have bombed hundreds of civilians. We don't get to claim the moral high ground.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#70

Post by forkLding »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
justinzollars wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miss out in the future number one market on earth or stand up for human rights? Certainly a scary future.

> future number one market on earth Is there an example of a western brand that has yet gained significant traction in China? My understanding is that unless you are a Chinese company, your chances of competing in this “number one” market are slim. Businesses obsess at the population numbers but ignore the reality.

Starbucks, Apple, Tesla, Western car companies, IKEA, LinkedIn, Coach, Coca-Cola, Nike, L'Oreal, Adidas, Microsoft etc, just google this.

https://www.uschina.org/about/member-companies

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