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Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

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Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#51

Post by spicytunacone »

factsaresacred wrote: post #11
wiradikusuma wrote: post #4

The question is, how did the Chinese immigration know? for each applicant do select count(*) from people_who_pissed_us where social_username = applicant.fb.username?

Ha, you've no idea how good they are at this. It's a high-tech surveillance state presiding over 1.5 billion people with a history of crushing (quite literally, sadly) or 'disappearing' any signs of dissent. Anecdotally: I once partnered with a Chinese cultural institute for a big event and ended up having my Gmail hacked as part of the compensation. They gotta know you're not a Tibetan separatist after all!

That's pretty crazy.

Any idea how they hacked your Gmail account? MITM/intercepting your password? How did you find out? Did Google inform you some IP in a bizarre location signed in?

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#52

Post by shalmanese »

reustle wrote: post #2

Is this surprising at all?

Actually, it's pretty surprising. Western journalists/academics have always been given a fair degree of latitude for reporting inside of China as long as they only wrote in English for foreign press.

There's been an active contingent of China Twitter loudly saying for the past few months that academics and journalists should be speaking out more about Xinjiang because the likelihood of visa revoking has been vastly overstated. Recent reporting seems to have touched a special nerve and the reactions are far more extreme than other negative China stories that journalists have weathered in the past.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#53

Post by C7H8N4O2 »

hangonhn wrote: post #37
lostlogin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a quick Google After switching of The Great Firewall for ones own browser, that pesky thing blocks useful information.

But the government doesn't block itself. I'm sure the Chinese government can access the open Internet.

Architect of China’s ‘Great Firewall’ Bumps Into It

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/world/asia/china-internet...

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#54

Post by eahman07 »

Kalium wrote: post #24
eahman06 wrote: post #14

Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. Say what you will but they're finding a solution to the Muslim problem, something the west doesn't have the balls to do (and by the time we come up with something it'll be too late)

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

I'm not pleading for exceptions to human rights, I'm saying human rights is a concept that has to be abandoned because they are nothing more than a tool from the west to impose their will all around the world. That's why they are selectively applied: nobody bats an eye about Israel or Saudi Arabia or China[1], but Syria couldn't defend themselves, so bombs away.

[1] China are not friends of the US, that's why they are criticised by the "media", but nobody has the balls to bomb the place, and I'm the sure the US would love to!

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#55

Post by factsaresacred »

spicytunacone wrote: post #51
factsaresacred wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, you've no idea how good they are at this. It's a high-tech surveillance state presiding over 1.5 billion people with a history of crushing (quite literally, sadly) or 'disappearing' any signs of dissent. Anecdotally: I once partnered with a Chinese cultural institute for a big event and ended up having my Gmail hacked as part of the compensation. They gotta know you're not a Tibetan separatist after all!

That's pretty crazy. Any idea how they hacked your Gmail account? MITM/intercepting your password? How did you find out? Did Google inform you some IP in a bizarre location signed in?

Not sure, could have been as mundane as me using one of the staff laptops to login to Google - a no-no in retrospect.

Yep, a warning similar to this one, but in Gmail: https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/Google-Extends-S...

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#56

Post by InitialLastName »

danso wrote: post #22
oathbreaker wrote: post #12

Why is this even a news on HN ? All governments including USA denies visa to foreigners for political reasons. I remember USA denying visa to an Indian chief minister in past because of lobbying by evangelists and Islamist. It might come as a surprise by American journalists are not entitled for a visa from China and I wish more countries would crackdown on click-bate rags like Buzzfeed.

Foreign journalists based in China write critical stories about China on a regular basis. It's a bit bizarre to me why you're calling Buzzfeed a "click-bate [sic]" rag when we're talking about a journalist who had just published an investigative story about the Chinese police state involving Uyghurs.

I can understand calling Buzzfeed clickbait; "XX Best ways to N: number 6 will blow your mind" used to be their bread and butter. Even now, the #2 story on their website is "29 things that'll genuinely make people say 'OMG I love your outfit'".

It took me a long time after their move towards occasionally funding "real" journalism before I was willing to even click a link to their URL.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#57

Post by chrischen »

Kalium wrote: post #24
eahman06 wrote: post #14

Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. Say what you will but they're finding a solution to the Muslim problem, something the west doesn't have the balls to do (and by the time we come up with something it'll be too late)

> Not excusing YC because I don't care about them, but Jesus, stop trying to apply the standards of the liberal west to all the world. No. Please stop pleading for exceptions to basic human rights.

eahman07 has a point. Whether or not you truly believe China abuses fundamental human rights more than any other group, the reality is that the usage by the West has historically been a political tool used for political warfare. It tends to lose its credibility and legitimacy with the kettle calling the teapot black if the accusation gets thrown around liberally.

A much better way than mindless reactionism is to look at the complex situation unfolding there rather than to use the traditional leftist tactic of "calling every Trump supporter a racist". It seems like China is just taking a heavy-hand at trying to fight potential extremism and terrorism. Whether it's right or not is up for discussion, but pretending like it's a one-sided thing is just more political warfare.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#58

Post by adventured »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
justinzollars wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miss out in the future number one market on earth or stand up for human rights? Certainly a scary future.

> future number one market on earth Is there an example of a western brand that has yet gained significant traction in China? My understanding is that unless you are a Chinese company, your chances of competing in this “number one” market are slim. Businesses obsess at the population numbers but ignore the reality.

The trick isn't whether these brands can access China, it's in what manner. Western brands sell very well in China, who gets the proceeds is the issue.

The big European luxury goods brands are doing a wild business in China. [1][2][3][4]

If you want to make a lot of money on China as a foreigner, you want to be selling a luxury brand product rather than offering a local service (eg fast food chain). That might be an iPhone or a Gucci bag or a Mercedes. Owning certain intellectual property, such as characters, can be equally lucrative (eg Marvel and Mickey Mouse). Nike and Jordan Brand have done a great business in China.

KFC in China for example, isn't controlled by Yum Brands US. It's controlled by Yum China, minority owned by Yum US. McDonald's has a small sliver of its own business in China.

Disney only owns 43% of its big new $5.5b park in Shanghai, the most popular park in China. Wang Jianlin had touted that he'd personally chase Disney from China, and that his parks would dominate instead. Disney really had no choice but to acquiesce and partner up. They'll make a lot of money from it and they had to cede control to do that.

Tesla is building a factory in China for the same reason everyone else has, there is no great alternative. You have to give local Chinese partners their big cut, or else.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/l-oreal-g...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-20/hermes-ex...

[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/lvmh-shin...

[4] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-28/luxury-ba...

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#59

Post by chrischen »

0x4f3759df wrote: post #6
wiradikusuma wrote: post #4

The question is, how did the Chinese immigration know? for each applicant do select count(*) from people_who_pissed_us where social_username = applicant.fb.username?

One infers their systems are highly integrated (tax/crime/social/banking/education/gps all unified)

It's actually quite surprising how un-integrated US government agencies and systems are.

Re: Buzzfeed journalist denied China visa following coverage of Xinjiang crackdown

#60

Post by joefranklinsrs »

justinzollars wrote: post #15
mattigames wrote: post #5

An indirect reminder that now that YC China is a thing @sama and @paulg and any other affiliated will have to avoid saying anything negative about China in order to keep doing business there.

Miss out in the future number one market on earth or stand up for human rights? Certainly a scary future.

> future number one market

That's highly unlikely given the current state, as US consumer is is about 1/3 of the world's household consumption https://www.selectusa.gov/largest-market, and is growing 3% this quarter. China has alot of debt problems, and will suffer heavily in a trade war. About 45% of Chinese GDP is in 'investment', where probably half is waste (continued state investments into expensive-to-maintain, rarely used rails, bridge, and buildings). Whereas for a developed country like US, it's about 20% investment (70% in consumption).

Population wise, US is augmented by steady immigration and will increase to 400 million in 2040, 500 million in 2100. China hit its peak in birthing in 1970s, and has been experiencing a steady decline since, projected to hit max 1.4 billion people in 2030 and then go to around 1 billion or below in 2100. US average income is still 7 times the Chinese average income.

IMO, China's hit its peak already in 2008 and is in decline, whereas US has recovered from 2008 and is rising

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