Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

foreignpolicy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 206 posts

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#61

Post by jacobush »

hulahoof wrote: post #35
onetimemanytime wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's I meant too,even in WWII communication was key, imagine today when all is computer controlled. China and Russia might be in the system already and waiting

I think it's pretty safe to say, while these games are always cat and mouse, that globally cyber defense is not approached with the same determination as cyber offence, and perhaps it can't be with resources in the same order. I think personally it's pretty likely that they're in our systems, and we're in theirs, for almost any major nation - ally or not. It's just MAD all over again.

Except accountability in Mutually Assured Destruction was always crystal clear.

Today, there is much more (potential) room for confusion and false flag attacks.

Relevant pop culture reference:

https://www.imdb.com/videoplayer/vi4020353817?playlistId=tt5...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#62

Post by 07d046 »

Jarwain wrote: post #30
toomanybeersies wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that I see a lot of Chinese apologism in the form of "this is the Chinese way" here. I wouldn't say that the comments are necessarily pro-China though, but rather just explaining that it is a different culture and things are done in a different way. I do think it's a bullshit cop out though. I think that it's ignorant at best and racist at worst when people make comments here along the lines of "Chinese peopl…

Would an immigrant Be an immigrant if they held love for the CCP and the Chinese Government?

There's been a lot of discussion recently about Chinese influence or interference in Australia, and much of that is through Chinese people living in Australia. For example, Chau Chak Wing is a Chinese-Australian billionaire with ties to the Chinese Communist Party, is one of Australia's top political donors, and is the unindicted co-conspirator in a bribery case involving the former president of the UN general assembly.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/political-donor-chau...

Edit: In today's news, more controversy around another Chinese billionaire with permanent residence in Australia and how he's getting involved in Australian politics for the benefit of the CCP https://www.smh.com.au/politics/western-australia/wyatt-s-al...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#63

Post by garmaine »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #33
garmaine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing the point. There's something to be said about treating every human with dignity, even the traitors.

I am sure they got a trial, albeit a 2 minute one, appeals included. Even in China looks like they improved from "Hanged, drawn and quartered," but let's be honest, things are different over there. Or we may want to ask about being treated with dignity those that are in Guantanamo Bay. Bottom line, one that betrays his country should know the--locally decided--risks. In Russia they kill you even after "forgiving" you…

People are people, over there or over here or anywhere.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#64

Post by 68c12c16 »

Rapzid wrote: post #53
King-Aaron wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously a revelation on Twitter about a secretive organisation's workings should always be taken with a grain of salt. However these sorts of reports aren't too uncommon, and it surprises me how there's a lot of pro-china commentators in communities such as HN who seem to glaze over these sorts of things and still aggressively promote the "Chinese way of doing things" is superior to whatever western value or opinio…

If you study the grammar on a lot of these posts, all over the internet even, you may come to the conclusion that the posters are government plants or Chinese CCP zealots. I wouldn't rule out a massive propoganda campaign; HN, mainstream news article comments, suspicious Quora "questions" about China with manipulative "answers", Confucius Institutes!..

It would be nice if someone could come up with an algorithm that automatically tell which posts are astroturfing, just like fakespot.com But apparently this would be much more difficult than the algorithm used by fakespot, and seem to be less domain specific...

But at least, perhaps, we could do some information clustering, as comments written by independent individuals are more likely to have greater variances -- and quite often, difference is what makes an individual human so valuable...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#65

Post by dalore »

covermydonkey wrote: post #15
solatic wrote: post #11

>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…

Agreed. > U.S. intelligence officers were also able to identify digital links between the covert communications system and the U.S. government itself, according to one former official—links the Chinese agencies almost certainly found as well. These digital links would have made it relatively easy for China to deduce that the covert communications system was being used by the CIA. In fact, some of these links pointed…

Why are they using an off the shelf secure communication system from the Middle East? Surely something this important is a national secret and should be developed in house with your best minds.

If it's off the shelf and others are using, then they can just buy the equipment and look for flaws (like this massive one).

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#66

Post by paulie_a »

bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #23
covermydonkey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. > U.S. intelligence officers were also able to identify digital links between the covert communications system and the U.S. government itself, according to one former official—links the Chinese agencies almost certainly found as well. These digital links would have made it relatively easy for China to deduce that the covert communications system was being used by the CIA. In fact, some of these links pointed…

What a shock. Even the CIA can be that incompetent?!

I forget where this quote is from but "the CIA would fuck up a cup of coffee"

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#67

Post by 68c12c16 »

throwawayt1894 wrote: post #50
68c12c16 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason why Chinese government would execute defected officials, instead of putting them in prison for life, is because historically defected officials often caused very serious losses to the chinese communist party. For instance, one of the most damaging defectors in their history was Gu Shunzhang, who led to the arrest of hundreds of their underground communists (many of those arrested were executed by t…

I don't think it has anything to do with valuing human life or not. I'm sure we both agree the US values human life, but the government is more than willing to accept the death of a 16 year old American citizen when trying to target his father during a drone strike. I'm more surprised that they would reveal their hand so suddenly. Maybe I watch too many movies, but I would think if you have exposed the entire network…

At the time of the drone strike, perhaps to the remote drone pilots, conceptually, the 16-year old kid was not an American citizen but merely someone who was different than they were...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#68

Post by jackvalentine »

dalore wrote: post #65
covermydonkey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. > U.S. intelligence officers were also able to identify digital links between the covert communications system and the U.S. government itself, according to one former official—links the Chinese agencies almost certainly found as well. These digital links would have made it relatively easy for China to deduce that the covert communications system was being used by the CIA. In fact, some of these links pointed…

Why are they using an off the shelf secure communication system from the Middle East? Surely something this important is a national secret and should be developed in house with your best minds. If it's off the shelf and others are using, then they can just buy the equipment and look for flaws (like this massive one).

As I understood it, it was a system they were using in the Middle East (developed in house) and they took it to China to use. Might be wrong though.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#69

Post by 68c12c16 »

Rapzid wrote: post #47
gammateam wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just in time and expense Chinese intelligence executed 30 operatives? Good thing we have a decentralized unaccountable police force larger than ALL national armies to carry out summary executions to the tune of 1,000 citizens per year and save us money.

I think you may have a hard time convincing people that the difference between due process and summary executions is just in time and expenses.

It depends on one's perspective...

In terms of time and money, indeed, the difference is as what you said...

But in terms of information flow, the difference would be quite huge...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#70

Post by noir_lord »

jackvalentine wrote: post #68
dalore wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are they using an off the shelf secure communication system from the Middle East? Surely something this important is a national secret and should be developed in house with your best minds. If it's off the shelf and others are using, then they can just buy the equipment and look for flaws (like this massive one).

As I understood it, it was a system they were using in the Middle East (developed in house) and they took it to China to use. Might be wrong though.

That's crazy.

Threat model from China in terms of infosec is very different than middle East countries (except isreal perhaps).

Not that it was a good idea in either region.

Post reply on HN