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Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#31

Post by garmaine »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #21
07d046 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an earlier NYT piece: > According to three of the officials, one was shot in front of his colleagues in the courtyard of a government building — a message to others who might have been working for the C.I.A. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

USA has the death penalty for treason too. Now you can argue back and forth (US wants China to eventually be democratic so I'm helping China by spying for CIA...etc) but they essentially betrayed their country. Chinese efficiency: Torture them till they tell want they know and then teach others a lesson along the way too. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381 Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States,…

Missing the point. There's something to be said about treating every human with dignity, even the traitors.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#32

Post by IIAOPSW »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #21
07d046 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an earlier NYT piece: > According to three of the officials, one was shot in front of his colleagues in the courtyard of a government building — a message to others who might have been working for the C.I.A. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

USA has the death penalty for treason too. Now you can argue back and forth (US wants China to eventually be democratic so I'm helping China by spying for CIA...etc) but they essentially betrayed their country. Chinese efficiency: Torture them till they tell want they know and then teach others a lesson along the way too. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381 Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States,…

Death penalty is a bit different from summary execution.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#33

Post by onetimemanytime »

garmaine wrote: post #31
onetimemanytime wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has the death penalty for treason too. Now you can argue back and forth (US wants China to eventually be democratic so I'm helping China by spying for CIA...etc) but they essentially betrayed their country. Chinese efficiency: Torture them till they tell want they know and then teach others a lesson along the way too. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381 Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States,…

Missing the point. There's something to be said about treating every human with dignity, even the traitors.

I am sure they got a trial, albeit a 2 minute one, appeals included. Even in China looks like they improved from "Hanged, drawn and quartered," but let's be honest, things are different over there.

Or we may want to ask about being treated with dignity those that are in Guantanamo Bay. Bottom line, one that betrays his country should know the--locally decided--risks. In Russia they kill you even after "forgiving" you (see last case in UK)

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#34

Post by jarym »

Maybe they should have used BBM/iMessage/WhatsApp - all the civilian gear governments are screaming they need backdoors into because they’re too tough to crack...

Yes I say this partly in jest and also partly as a ‘why didn’t they’. BBM Enterprise over a VPN service popular with movie streamers would have actually helped them blend in... digitally speaking.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#35

Post by hulahoof »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #29
achow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point that was being made is China/Russia perhaps is still not there with all their covert operation guns out and blazing. If situation does arise (hot conflict or otherwise) then one "shudders to think" what would be the implications.

That's I meant too,even in WWII communication was key, imagine today when all is computer controlled. China and Russia might be in the system already and waiting

I think it's pretty safe to say, while these games are always cat and mouse, that globally cyber defense is not approached with the same determination as cyber offence, and perhaps it can't be with resources in the same order.

I think personally it's pretty likely that they're in our systems, and we're in theirs, for almost any major nation - ally or not.

It's just MAD all over again.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#36

Post by bacon_waffle »

Jarwain wrote: post #30
toomanybeersies wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that I see a lot of Chinese apologism in the form of "this is the Chinese way" here. I wouldn't say that the comments are necessarily pro-China though, but rather just explaining that it is a different culture and things are done in a different way. I do think it's a bullshit cop out though. I think that it's ignorant at best and racist at worst when people make comments here along the lines of "Chinese peopl…

Would an immigrant Be an immigrant if they held love for the CCP and the Chinese Government?

There are a lot of reasons that people move to different countries, aside from feelings about the government they're moving away from.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#37

Post by Gustomaximus »

yborg wrote: post #13

It took 8 years for the CIA to figure out what happened?? This certainly explains why China and Russia continue to conduct cyber operations basically at the same level of intensity they have been for years - US intelligence, despite its enormous, unaccountable budget is unable to stop them or even know where they are compromised. If there is an actual hot conflict between the US and either of these nations, I shudder…

I wonder if this is due to the ever increasing scale of the US intelligence services.

From my working life perspective smaller teams of talented people are often more impactful than significantly larger teams. E.g. Large teams create bureaucracy. And 'weak links' become harder to spot and typically allowed to remain.

I know nothing about this area so take my comment as curiosity only, but I wonder what USA gets/achieves for this $50-100bn intelligence budget? And what would they get at a $2bn funded group utilising a much smaller group of the best employees within the existing orgs.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#38

Post by olivermarks »

Other Dorfman articles https://foreignpolicy.com/author/zach-dorfman/

I treat any media 'story' about spooks with great suspicion, because it almost almost invariably winds up over time that there are far more layers to the onion than are revealed in these types of exposes.

I wonder what 'The disaster in China has led some officials to conclude that internet-based systems, even ones that employ sophisticated encryption, can never be counted on to shield assets' is going to lead to? Some sort of new infrastructure may even already be in use...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#39

Post by toomanybeersies »

Jarwain wrote: post #30
toomanybeersies wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that I see a lot of Chinese apologism in the form of "this is the Chinese way" here. I wouldn't say that the comments are necessarily pro-China though, but rather just explaining that it is a different culture and things are done in a different way. I do think it's a bullshit cop out though. I think that it's ignorant at best and racist at worst when people make comments here along the lines of "Chinese peopl…

Would an immigrant Be an immigrant if they held love for the CCP and the Chinese Government?

I migrated from New Zealand to Australia, yet I like the current ruling coalition and government in New Zealand and dislike the Australian ruling coalition and government.

There are reasons to migrate beyond politics.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#40

Post by ovi256 »

jmnicolas wrote: post #27

It seems that the CIA is more embarrassed that their IT has been breached by the Chinese than the death of people that trusted them.

Treating the recruited agents as disposable has been the rule rather than the exception throughout the ages.

The average half-life of an clandestine agent is surprisingly low, and planned for accordingly.

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