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Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

nytimes.com

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Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#61

Post by saagarjha »

adjagu wrote: post #45
gumby wrote: post #15

> "Mr. Russell...had worked his shift on Friday." So glad they told us this important fact. I wonder if his final direct deposit (to his estate) will include that days' pay or if it will count as a vacation day? Has the news always been this inane?

That sentence did stick out to me too. As abrupt and lacking further information as it was it did serve to notify us as to how he was able to be on the tarmac and gain access to the airplane. I do feel that the author could have expanded that thought a bit more.

I think helped show how sudden this change was. One day, he's working his normal job, another he's stealing a plane and crashing it into an island.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#62

Post by aaronmck »

The article title seems like an overreaction to a really sad situation. We have to trust at least someone, and although he clearly had some issues (maybe recent), he wasn't out to hurt anyone or aligned with any groups that wanted to inflict harm.

Fighter jets were there immediately, people tried to talk him down, and he was lost. Nothing better could have been done all around. Yes, commercial planes could be keycoded or controlled in some other way, but I think most engineers in a controlled setting will agree this creates exponentially more day-to-day headaches than catastrophic situations it prevents.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#63

Post by chrisper »

mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

I have put many hours in flight simulators (the ones you can install on your own PC). One day I decided to take a real flying lesson. It was almost the same as in the simulator. Obviously the controls are a bit different because of different feedback, but you get used to it quickly. I think what helps a lot is that there are so many very detailed plane packages out there you can buy for the simulators. Too bad the community is kind of toxic, so I stopped playing these games.

Obviously it's not enough to get a pilot license because there are some things that you just can't do in a simulator.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#64

Post by turtlecloud »

Rotdhizon wrote: post #17
abhiminator wrote: post #3

> Mr. Russell stole a plane from the airport and flew it for about an hour before it crashed. (emphasis mine) Wonder why Air National Guard's scrambled F-15s [0] didn't engage and bring the plane down before the individual commandeering the prop -- Mr. Russell -- brought the aircraft down with himself in the Ketron Island. IIRC, the plane flew over several densely populated areas before going down, and I can imagine…

And to think, even if they decided to take him down, it would have likely been over a populated area. Unless they disintegrated it with missiles while in the sky, it likely would have ended in a catastrophe. The decision to not take the plan out as soon as they had the chance to safely was interesting. Their lack of action could have resulted in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of people. Interestingly enough…

It’s because he is a white guy. Can’t demonize them unless they are brown or dark.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#65

Post by cgdcraig »

joezydeco wrote: post #52
cgdcraig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the engine start procedure on one of those things is a turnkey solution. The amount of domain knowledge needed serves as a form of soft security.

Yet there’s plenty of knowledge out there if you know where to look. Want to steal an Airbus A320? Here’s the complete startup procedure: https://youtu.be/uqKeSO6msDk

Right but my point is if you're premeditating the theft to the point where you've studied the manuals/practiced in flight simulators then a key isn't going to be the thing stopping you. I mean will that person realistically go "oh man, I've spent 100 hours learning how to pilot this thing, snuck into the plane, properly fueled the plane and did weight balancing but shit I don't have the keys, guess I'll just go home!". Nah, that guy is hot wiring that plane or stealing the keys on his way into the plane.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#66

Post by [deleted] »

mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

[deleted]

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#67

Post by [deleted] »

joezydeco wrote: post #52
cgdcraig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the engine start procedure on one of those things is a turnkey solution. The amount of domain knowledge needed serves as a form of soft security.

Yet there’s plenty of knowledge out there if you know where to look. Want to steal an Airbus A320? Here’s the complete startup procedure: https://youtu.be/uqKeSO6msDk

[deleted]

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#68

Post by NickNameNick »

rl3 wrote: post #37
Rotdhizon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to think, even if they decided to take him down, it would have likely been over a populated area. Unless they disintegrated it with missiles while in the sky, it likely would have ended in a catastrophe. The decision to not take the plan out as soon as they had the chance to safely was interesting. Their lack of action could have resulted in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of people. Interestingly enough…

> Who else can ever say they did a freaking barrel roll in a commercial airliner. Tex Johnston for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaA7kPfC5Hk

And the English and French chief test pilots for Concorde.

Sadly no pictures or videos of exists.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#69

Post by fipple »

justboxing wrote: post #60
fipple wrote: post #49

There is of course a lot sad about this story but something joyful as well. Many people commit suicide without such a final moment of exhilaration.

> Many people commit suicide without such a final moment of exhilaration. ...and without costing tax payers (F-15 fighter jets scrambling) and private companies (the airlines that owned the crashed plane) millions of dollars, causing stress and anxiety to people boarding other flights at Seattle airport and the subsequent delays to everyone else.

If there’s a day I know I will die, you can be sure that other people’s money and stress will be pretty low on my priority list.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#70

Post by ericpauley »

joezydeco wrote: post #52
cgdcraig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the engine start procedure on one of those things is a turnkey solution. The amount of domain knowledge needed serves as a form of soft security.

Yet there’s plenty of knowledge out there if you know where to look. Want to steal an Airbus A320? Here’s the complete startup procedure: https://youtu.be/uqKeSO6msDk

Keep in mind that almost all of this was safety checks, if you don't care about that then there were only a few pretty simple steps.
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