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How America Uses Its Land

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Re: How America Uses Its Land

#61

Post by wavefunction »

rayiner wrote: post #48

The one third being used for cows is misleading. Pasture is basically the Bureau of Land Management’s default use for the vast swaths of federal land. It’s like “here is this land, you’re allowed to graze on it with a permit.” That doesn’t produce that many cows—it’s more about politics and the fact that much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass. The real land use from growing meat comes from the…

>much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass.

From an agricultural standpoint perhaps.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#63

Post by craftyguy »

wavefunction wrote: post #61
rayiner wrote: post #48

The one third being used for cows is misleading. Pasture is basically the Bureau of Land Management’s default use for the vast swaths of federal land. It’s like “here is this land, you’re allowed to graze on it with a permit.” That doesn’t produce that many cows—it’s more about politics and the fact that much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass. The real land use from growing meat comes from the…

>much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass. From an agricultural standpoint perhaps.

Yea, clearly gp has never ventured out into some of this. There are gems here for hiking/backpacking, and preserving wildlife/watersheds, and much more than just feeding cows.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#64

Post by freddie_mercury »

hirundo wrote: post #30

> More than one-third of U.S. land is used for pasture ... There’s a single, major occupant on all this land: cows. Not here. I live on cow range land, but the cattle are outnumbered by elk. The elk hunting industry here is larger than the cattle industry. Every third local seems to be a hunting guide, and many of those are cow growers too. This seems to me to be a very positive thing that should be encouraged. Inste…

I live in a developing country. People regularly kill animals to eat. They will have chickens, ducks, rats, fish, turtles, dogs, and pigs that they raise and eat.

There is no "communing with nature". There is no "paying the blood price". There is certainly no "greater love and understanding of nature" or "meaning in their lives". It is just eating, living, surviving.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#65

Post by komali2 »

bscphil wrote: post #56
hirundo wrote: post #30

> More than one-third of U.S. land is used for pasture ... There’s a single, major occupant on all this land: cows. Not here. I live on cow range land, but the cattle are outnumbered by elk. The elk hunting industry here is larger than the cattle industry. Every third local seems to be a hunting guide, and many of those are cow growers too. This seems to me to be a very positive thing that should be encouraged. Inste…

Having people travel to hunt the meat they eat doesn't scale, though, at all. It's quite simply not possible to use it as a way to improve land use and reduce climate change. Suggestions like yours can be good, but they don't recognize the scale of the changes that are needed. It's the equivalent of trying to get people to buy hybrids to stop climate change - even if everyone could do it, it wouldn't make a dent in t…

Well, you hit the nose on the head with your final point - if hunting was the only way to get meat, there'd be a hell of a lot more meat being eaten.

I'm not sure that anybody here is recommending that literally every person hunts their meat though, or that it should be the only way to get meat, so what's the point of talking about scale?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#66

Post by komali2 »

bscphil wrote: post #57
pitaj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most grazing land was not cleared by people. It's just land that people graze their cattle on. Most of it is plains, and was never heavily forested. Also, when grass is eaten it absorbs much more carbon dioxide, so the grazing of the cattle is beneficial. Are you suggesting a better use of the land is for humans to plant a bunch of trees on it?

I think the usual claim is that almost any other use at all would be better for the environment than cattle grazing.

I don't understand why - better being "more natural," right? Those plains have been feeding grazing animals for millennia, what should we do differently?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#67

Post by chrisweekly »

komali2 wrote: post #65
bscphil wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having people travel to hunt the meat they eat doesn't scale, though, at all. It's quite simply not possible to use it as a way to improve land use and reduce climate change. Suggestions like yours can be good, but they don't recognize the scale of the changes that are needed. It's the equivalent of trying to get people to buy hybrids to stop climate change - even if everyone could do it, it wouldn't make a dent in t…

Well, you hit the nose on the head with your final point - if hunting was the only way to get meat, there'd be a hell of a lot more meat being eaten. I'm not sure that anybody here is recommending that literally every person hunts their meat though, or that it should be the only way to get meat, so what's the point of talking about scale?

> "if hunting was the only way to get meat, there'd be a hell of a lot more meat being eaten"

I think you meant __less__, not more, yeah?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#68

Post by StillBored »

redahs wrote: post #58
hirundo wrote: post #30

> More than one-third of U.S. land is used for pasture ... There’s a single, major occupant on all this land: cows. Not here. I live on cow range land, but the cattle are outnumbered by elk. The elk hunting industry here is larger than the cattle industry. Every third local seems to be a hunting guide, and many of those are cow growers too. This seems to me to be a very positive thing that should be encouraged. Inste…

> They buy expensive equipment and tags then come out here and work their asses off for a chance. That's fine as a hobby, but it would create poverty and rapid depletion of wildlife if the majority of people were forced to depend on hunting and game meat for daily meals. > If we can arrange for more people to harvest their own meat rather than accepting an industrial commodity. This is a false dilemma. If we want to…

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered.

For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on some of the most prime real-estate in Austin Tx.

(Lot 4, 260 acres, $307 in taxes) http://propaccess.traviscad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?cid=1...

(Lot 2, 155 acres, $278 in taxes) http://propaccess.traviscad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?cid=1...

(Lot 1, ~120 acres + ~7000 sqft cottage, boat dock larger than my house, and a bunch of other stuff, $69,556 in taxes) http://propaccess.traviscad.org/clientdb/Property.aspx?cid=1...

The $70 thousand a year in taxes seems like a lot, unless you consider that I live a few miles away and pay ~15k a year for less than .1 acre and live in a house that isn't even as nice as the boat dock on that property.

(if you google it a bit you can probably figure out who owns it, but good luck untwisting the layers of shell corps listed on the tax appraisal)

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#69

Post by tomcam »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #15
gweinberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the chart gives the impression that land is land, and we just decide how to use it. But there are good reasons land is used the way it is. Farmland in the midwest is really really flat, with thick rich soil. A lot of forest land is pretty steeply sloped, with not so much soil. And so on.

In other words: even if mushrooms grow on it, land is not fungible.

I’m sorry, we’re going to shadowban your account for excessive dad jokes ;)
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