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Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#61

Post by ta1234567890 »

jokh wrote: post #39
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can get there by finding jobs where the interviewers/hiring managers aren't using Leetcode as their filter. (They do exist, even if they're not as common as they should be.)

That's why I said "pay reasonably well". It seems to me that most places that don't interview and filter candidates by asking algorithmic problems don't pay as well as those that do. That's just been my experience as a student that's interviewed for internships and is going to start interviewing for new grad positions in the fall. Also > (They do exist, even if they're not as common as they should be.) I'm curious wh…

At one of my companies we pay SF/BayArea market salaries and the way we hire (pretty much everyone, not just programmers) is: 1) short (10-20 min) phone interview, 2) if it seems like a good candidate we invite them for a paid test run, usually 2 weeks of actual real work, either remotely or in person, 3) if it works out, they get hired.

Pretty much nothing will accurately predict how well someone is going to do on the job. The best approximation is for them actually doing the job.

Also, the two most important things that we look/test for throughout the process are: 1) how good of a fit the candidate is for the team/company (do they get along with their team?) and 2) how enthusiastic they are about working with us (did they do some research on us ahead of time? are they excited about the opportunity?)

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#62

Post by fdr »

It sounds to me like you might have more of a stress issue than anything else. It is hard for me to imagine someone getting a CS degree but also failing to be able to practice and get better at interview problems on basis of intellect.

Don't make any rash decisions. Practice with an answer key and fix mistakes in solving mundane problems rapidly. Repeat. Struggle is overrated compared to repetition and quick correction.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#63

Post by freyr »

flocial wrote: post #44

"Easy problems take me 2-5 hours." Are you sure you're not reinventing established theories and algorithms? Those problems are supposed to be hard because they're based on ideas discovered by the most brilliant minds. If you can do them in 2-5 hours with no background you might actually be real good. Depending on what level of familiarity you have with the material, you might be selling yourself really short. Deliber…

Regardless of whether OP is good at programming, it sounds like he might not enjoy it.

To OP: you spent a couple years in college and got yourself a CS degree. Congrats. It is not an obligation to spend the rest of your life doing something you dislike. You might try a software job for a year to see how you like it, or maybe it's already time to change direction. Do you already have something else in mind you'd like to do?

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#64

Post by throwaway613834 »

flocial wrote: post #44

"Easy problems take me 2-5 hours." Are you sure you're not reinventing established theories and algorithms? Those problems are supposed to be hard because they're based on ideas discovered by the most brilliant minds. If you can do them in 2-5 hours with no background you might actually be real good. Depending on what level of familiarity you have with the material, you might be selling yourself really short. Deliber…

>> "Easy problems take me 2-5 hours."

> Those problems are supposed to be hard because they're based on ideas discovered by the most brilliant minds. If you can do them in 2-5 hours with no background you might actually be real good.

Putting myself in the OP's shoes, this would be really frustrating advice to hear. The OP literally said they already got a CS degree and that these are "easy problems" taking them 2-5 hours. Baselessly calling into question their own assessment of problem difficulty (as if it's likely that they're that clueless about how difficult interview problems are supposed to be after having received a CS degree) while simultaneously suggesting they might actually be brilliant and simply not realizing it is, honestly, just unhelpful advice, if not potentially actively harmful. If you're going to do this, at least ask them to post a question or two so you can independently gauge their assessment first.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#65

Post by awinder »

jokh wrote: post #39
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can get there by finding jobs where the interviewers/hiring managers aren't using Leetcode as their filter. (They do exist, even if they're not as common as they should be.)

That's why I said "pay reasonably well". It seems to me that most places that don't interview and filter candidates by asking algorithmic problems don't pay as well as those that do. That's just been my experience as a student that's interviewed for internships and is going to start interviewing for new grad positions in the fall. Also > (They do exist, even if they're not as common as they should be.) I'm curious wh…

Take home assignments, discussions about work history, problem solving at an architectural level, the list goes on. Programming to algorithms in a live interview setting is about the least realistic way to gauge real job aptitude. Tons of thought leaders write about this, and tons of places implement more rational hiring practices.

On the “pay reasonably well” line, the average new college grad salary is 50K. I’d wager that the vast majority of salaries in the field exceed that. The googles of the world pay way in excess, and they may make you do some stupid dances to get in the door, but that’s not the real world, that’s just one weird part of the world.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#66

Post by codezero »

Do you suffer from ADHD? (Don’t tell me) - if so, you can often ask for more time on challenges/tests or other accommodations. Don’t be ashamed of doing so.

Also, don’t go it alone. Get a mentor, attend meetups, find peers to practice with.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#68

Post by ta1234567890 »

fdr wrote: post #62

It sounds to me like you might have more of a stress issue than anything else. It is hard for me to imagine someone getting a CS degree but also failing to be able to practice and get better at interview problems on basis of intellect. Don't make any rash decisions. Practice with an answer key and fix mistakes in solving mundane problems rapidly. Repeat. Struggle is overrated compared to repetition and quick correcti…

Also, two recommendations to help combat the anxiety/stress: 1) try some form of meditation (you can start with an app like HeadSpace), 2) get the book The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane and practice the exercises there - they'll help you a lot with building your confidence and reducing anxiety.

Good luck! Wish you the best.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#69

Post by karmelapple »

Systems Engineering.

Work in the world of avionics and help figure out what is needed for airplane manufacturers, pilots, or the manufacturers of the hardware and software for the many boxes that make modern air travel safe and reliable.

It involves writing English and logic and attention to detail, but it does not require coding. It helps to know the broad ideas behind coding, but isn’t necessary to write algorithms or otherwise solve problems in code.

I would strongly encourage this career path. Look to companies like Boeing, Garmin, United Technologies, and many more.

I will avoid asking other questions about your current predicament since many other people are asking you insightful questions. But if you truly don’t want to code, seriously consider systems engineering.

Re: Ask HN: Got a CS degree, but I’m unable to be programmer. What can I do?

#70

Post by bendbro »

> I experience PTSD like symptoms from the constant barrage of negative thoughts the difficulty and stress of doing these problems are causing me

This happens to me too, especially when it comes to programming soft skills. Making code work per requirements is easy. Making it future proof is hard.

So make the thing work per the requirements and only then worry about debating best practices, OOP design, and the various other soft skills. For most of these soft skills debates, there will be no objective truth.

And when it comes time to deal with a hiring, promotion, or firing decision, do you think your manager cares whether your code is functional or object oriented? No, and he probably wouldn't recognize the difference, even if he had the time to evaluate your code. He's only looking at two things: 1) Are your projects delivered on time and in a working manner? 2) Do your peers complain about you?

All the hard stuff is only indirectly related, and is usually the realm of a senior engineer. Senior engineers aren't respected because they are familiar with some secret objective truth, they just have experience collected artistry that builds whatever seems to be good code. As a junior, you just need to do your best to internalize what they say, and paint a better picture next time.

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