Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#61

Post by popularrecluse » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

ginger123 wrote: post #49

popularrecluse wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah well I am American and it's not true. The majority of us who you have been made to believe 'defend' their residing here illegally want to see them treated humanely, and see sensible immigration reform and reasonable paths to citizenship for those who desire it. I know, and have worked with plenty of people whose papers weren't in order. They are people, just like you or me. I certainly have violated the law in m…

What kind of work do you do?

I've done everything from washing dishes, waiting tables, managing 2 coffee shops, landscape work, data entry, to my current work as a mobile developer. And I know where you're going with this, and no I've never had trouble finding work when I needed it.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#62

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #55

wildmusings wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a distortion of what’s happening. Crossing into the US illegally is a crime. We are now arresting and charging people who commit it. We do not send innocent children to prison, so the only option is separation. If you commit any other crime and are arrested, you will be “separated” from your child, because your child does not belong in prison. Why do you expect this to be any different?

Applying for asylum is a crime?

Applying for asylum at a port of entry is not a crime, and none of those people are being detained or separated from their kids. But crossing into the country illegally is a crime, even if you subsequently request asylum.

Edit: Someone1234, I would reply directly but I’m rate limited. The incident you’re pointing out is more nuanced than that. To combat human trafficking, we separate children from adults we suspect may not be their parents, pending further investigation like interviews of the children and interrogation of the supposed parents. That has nothing to do with the recent headlines and is longstanding practice.

Edit: A further reply to Someone1234: you are citing these accounts by advocates on one side of the issue as truth. The official government statements are very clear on the situations in which children will be separated from the adults they are traveling with when claiming asylum at a port of entry. All of them concern either fears of human trafficking or other concern that child is not safe with the adult. Do government employees lie? Yes. But a systematic lie like that, involving the repeated illegal detention of children, would not last very long. If there’s one thing federal judges don’t tolerate, it’s being lied to.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#63

Post by aoeusnth1 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:39 AM UTC

ginger123 wrote: post #35

_bohm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really? Most people I know would probably contend that the illegal status of most of these people is due to flaws in our immigration system. They want this country to be a place where from all over can come to thrive if they are so motivated. The quote engraved on the Statue of Liberty comes to mind... “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teem…

Are you ok if illegals immigrants move into your neighborhood and compete for your job? EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? I asked a legitimate question. If illegal immigrants moved into your neighborhood and affected the socioeconomic status, school ratings etc of your neighborhood, how will you react? Will you advocate for the same policies you are advocating now? I have a feeling most of the people who are supporting…

Yes. Illegal immigrants contribute more to the economy than they get out of it.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#64

Post by nomocrypto » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:39 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #48

popularrecluse wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah well I am American and it's not true. The majority of us who you have been made to believe 'defend' their residing here illegally want to see them treated humanely, and see sensible immigration reform and reasonable paths to citizenship for those who desire it. I know, and have worked with plenty of people whose papers weren't in order. They are people, just like you or me. I certainly have violated the law in m…

“Papers weren’t in order” is a hell of a euphemism for crossing into the country illegally or overstaying a temporary visa that is explicitly not for migration.

You do realize that borders are totally arbitrary and that with the stroke of a pen any of these rules could be changed, right? What makes you so convinced that we are completely powerless to change this system that we’ve created? Just repeating “it’s a crime!” over and over again is absolutely no justification for how these people are treated, and I think you know that.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#65

Post by Covzire » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:39 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #32

Covzire wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a week or so there will be something else for the MSM to outrage everyone about, using yet another extremely one-sided angle about some other policy that started long before Nov 2016. I simply cannot watch/read mainstream news anymore, it's such a joke. You're being lied to and manipulated on a daily basis. Weekly periodicals are the last best source of any kind of non-technical information, and maybe technical to…

It was never an enforced policy to seperate children from the parents.

Then why was the photo that sparked the latest outrage reported as being recent, when it was taken during the previous administration?

And what do you do with children at the border when they're not accompanied by a parent or even a relative, such as child traffickers?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#66

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

ginger123 wrote: post #35

_bohm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really? Most people I know would probably contend that the illegal status of most of these people is due to flaws in our immigration system. They want this country to be a place where from all over can come to thrive if they are so motivated. The quote engraved on the Statue of Liberty comes to mind... “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teem…

Are you ok if illegals immigrants move into your neighborhood and compete for your job? EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? I asked a legitimate question. If illegal immigrants moved into your neighborhood and affected the socioeconomic status, school ratings etc of your neighborhood, how will you react? Will you advocate for the same policies you are advocating now? I have a feeling most of the people who are supporting…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#67

Post by ethagnawl » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #43

kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

tldr: I'll be in favor of cracking down on illegal immigrants when people stop hiring them for fear of getting in trouble. This is a naive reading of the politics. Very few people are actively in favor of illegal immigration. Many people believe the cures (that is, the ones that politicians push for) are worse than the disease. My personal view is that if we really wanted to solve the problem, we would do it on the e…

> Nobody talks about that because the people who benefit most are strong, organized, and relatable (upstanding well to do business people).

People who own hotels and golf courses, for instance.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#68

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

nomocrypto wrote: post #64

wildmusings wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Papers weren’t in order” is a hell of a euphemism for crossing into the country illegally or overstaying a temporary visa that is explicitly not for migration.

You do realize that borders are totally arbitrary and that with the stroke of a pen any of these rules could be changed, right? What makes you so convinced that we are completely powerless to change this system that we’ve created? Just repeating “it’s a crime!” over and over again is absolutely no justification for how these people are treated, and I think you know that.

If you don’t believe a nation has the moral right to decide who to admit into itself, then we’re just operating from different axioms and will never agree.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#69

Post by IanDrake » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #56

jsemrau wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Good on these folks for stepping up. I am not American, but this is the point in time where you take a stand. Where America needs to fight for it's democracy. This is not the time to be complacent.

Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Edit: I’m not commenting on the propriety of the Microsoft employees’ actions. They are clearly free to urge their employer to refrain from participating in something they disagree with. That is absolutely part of what liv…

We have to defend democracy by overthrowing our democratically elected government and ignoring our Constitution.

What part of that is confusing?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#70

Post by slededit » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

patrickg_zill wrote: post #47

It would be entirely expected and likely, that were MSFT to cancel their ICE contract, that many other parts of the Federal government would leave MSFT's services. After all, they too would be only 1 media dustup away from having to deal with finding another vendor suddenly.

The only large tech company with sufficient control over their employees is oracle, and it's unlikely they'll have the necessary capabilities anytime soon. They're still trying to figure out this whole cloud thing.