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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#61

Post by paulie_a »

digitalzombie wrote: post #22
dalbasal wrote: post #19

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

I disagree. Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam. So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration…

This is completely off topic, but I will never buy another Samsung appliance or anything anymore. Great hardware but shit software...my refrigerator should not need to reboot.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#62

Post by tanilama »

xienze wrote: post #46
tanilama wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can other countries trusy Trump administration at all at this point? It seems obvious, to deal with Trump, you have to prepare for the worst, since he is not predictable and tends to whatever he wants and whenever he desires.

Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war? Why is it OK for other countries to levy tariffs against us but not the other way around?

US doesn't have the lowest overall tariff in the world, it is Japan who does among major countries.

Talking about fairness, it is fair for US to print their own currency and buy goods around the world, while other countries can't do the same? The reserve status of dollar doesn't come by itself, there is a price to pay, you can't have the cake and eat it.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#63

Post by zaroth »

fentonc wrote: post #51
xienze wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war? Why is it OK for other countries to levy tariffs against us but not the other way around?

We levy plenty of tariffs on goods from other countries to protect local industries - on average ours are very slightly lower than places like the EU, but it’s like ~2.5% vs 3%, not 0% vs 30%, which seems to be your claim.

“America’s taxes on imports are much lower than those of almost every other country.”

— The NY Times

China’s weight average tariffs are 3x higher than the United States, approximately 10% vs 3.5%.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#64

Post by innocentoldguy »

AlexandrB wrote: post #52
innocentoldguy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anybody is fighting against helping their fellow man. What they are angry about is having the big guns of government pointed at their heads while the rewards of their labor are siphoned away under the guise of charity. Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion.

> Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion. You're talking about the subsidies for electric cars, right?

I do not understand how you arrived at that conclusion. Could you explain?

I think my point is simple and clear. If you choose to help the poor at your own expense, it is charity. If you want to help the poor at my expense, it is extortion. People don't mind the first. They mind very much the second.

That's it. That is the entirety of my point. There are no hidden layers to peel back. No need to downvote me for being against electric cars. I own one myself.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#65

Post by AlexandrB »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #64
AlexandrB wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion. You're talking about the subsidies for electric cars, right?

I do not understand how you arrived at that conclusion. Could you explain? I think my point is simple and clear. If you choose to help the poor at your own expense, it is charity. If you want to help the poor at my expense, it is extortion. People don't mind the first. They mind very much the second. That's it. That is the entirety of my point. There are no hidden layers to peel back. No need to downvote me for being…

Yeah, choosing to help the poor - like Tesla. I see you made that choice, but why should I as a taxpayer have to foot the bill as well?

Edit: Oh sorry, I realized you might be referring to helping the poor banks during the 2008 financial crisis. Well, I don't want to pay for that either.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#66

Post by masklinn »

xienze wrote: post #33
digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…

> Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the message seems to be that other countries are allowed to protect their domestic industry via tariffs and the US is just supposed to deal with it, don’t wanna start a trade war!

You do know the US is already heavily protectionist and many tariffs are protections against the US's price dumping due to its heavy subsidies, right?

And that the US already has plenty of tariffs to boot?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#67

Post by paulie_a »

oh-kumudo wrote: post #9
thisisit wrote: post #2

Curious how will this affect the Chinese sellers (both fake and genuine goods) on Amazon/Ebay?

Larger sellers would count the tariffs into the pricing, or you can test your luck to see whether customs will pick your package or not.

Customs will rarely pick your package, I received a letter that some items were confiscated 6 months after I was reshipped and received them.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#68

Post by onion2k »

mchannon wrote: post #4

If the cost of food doubles, your cost of a meal out doesn't double, but merely increases by a lesser amount. This is a 25% bump, a portion of which will be borne by the manufacturer, seller, shipper, and money handler. I don't see how it's even close to possible for customs to intercept 50% of the mail coming in from China to ensure they've paid the tariffs. So, things will range from unenforceable and unenforced, t…

If the cost of food doubles, your cost of a meal out doesn't double, but merely increases by a lesser amount.

If the manufacturer can't make a profit at the tariff-burdened price, they just don't make the food in the first place. So you go hungry.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#69

Post by tyfon »

tanilama wrote: post #40
xienze wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…

Can other countries trusy Trump administration at all at this point? It seems obvious, to deal with Trump, you have to prepare for the worst, since he is not predictable and tends to whatever he wants and whenever he desires.

Not at all.

Here is a perspective from the Norwegian foreign minister [1], with google translate [2].

The key word here is uncertainty and unpredictability.

[1]https://www.nrk.no/urix/_-vi-ma-jobbe-annerledes-med-donald-...

[2]https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#70

Post by IanDrake »

detaro wrote: post #21
IanDrake wrote: post #10

These new tariffs are posturing. Trump seems to understand how to negotiate and is willing to take short term hardship for long term gain. We need to have balanced trade agreements. Not balanced in the sense of trade amount, but balanced in the sense of tariffs and subsidies. Access to US consumers is a big bargaining chip. If China won’t deal, there are other countries that will. I think we all understood we had an…

> Access to US consumers is a big bargaining chip Which is why finished consumer products are not part of the new tariffs, so companies that make stuff in China and ship it to the US are better off than companies buying parts in China and assembling in the US? Or was there a big push of end-product tariffs before that didn't make headlines? In most cases, buying all your parts locally is fairly impractical. (The docu…

I think you’re making an assumption that the ongoing trade negotiations is static. It’s not. Today it’s parts, tomorrow it could be fully assembled goods.

If you’re going to negotiate, you don’t play all your cards at once.

I don’t think the end state of the negotiations is protectionist tariffs for the US, it’s to get China to drop their protectionist tariffs. If we reach that end goal, how is that a bad thing?

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