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In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

nytimes.com

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Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#61

Post by nickthemagicman »

gepi79 wrote: post #16
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it. Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich people are not the problem. Rich people are no excuse for doing bad things. Poverty is no excuse for doing bad things. Deficient morality leads to bad actions and bad constraints. Change requires change. Understanding who and what to blame is an improvement. Becomi…

Become vegan and vote? Thats the whitest most privileged first world solution I've ever heard.

There's around 3 billion people in the world who don't know where their next meal is coming from. Should they also recycle?

They are not concerned with abstract concepts like morality when their fundamental survival is at stake.

You, me, anyone would kill someone to feed their kid without a second thought. Dyanamiting fish is NOTHING to these people.

>Many rich people are rich because they employ people and profit from it.

Correction: Without proper regulations, Rich people EXPLOIT people in subhuman wages/conditions to make insane profit.

>Many rich people are rich because they own real wealth and not (just) money. Rich people are not the problem. Rich people are no excuse for doing bad things.

You basically just said "rich people aren't the problem" with no evidence for that claim. You have not sufficiently made the case that rich people aren't the problem.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#62

Post by teekert »

I have the feeling that soon the fishermen will have nothing left to catch and will be forced to let nature recover. I see them just as out of balance predators, killing of their own supply and subsequently they shall die themselves (or be forced into other source of income). Will nature recover? I do think so.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#63

Post by nickthemagicman »

acchow wrote: post #20
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

What? This has nothing to do with the rich. This is the tragedy of the commons - other fishers are allowed to use dynamite to fish extremely effectively, so the only way for you to make a living wage is to do the same.

This has everything 100% to do with the rich and inequality.

"Tragedy of the commons" is a total strawman.

You want to stop this from happening...give these people enough money to go to the grocery store or get trained for a job.

Its extremely simple.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#64

Post by dayofthedaleks »

teekert wrote: post #62

I have the feeling that soon the fishermen will have nothing left to catch and will be forced to let nature recover. I see them just as out of balance predators, killing of their own supply and subsequently they shall die themselves (or be forced into other source of income). Will nature recover? I do think so.

It's nice to think the market would solve this but you're basically describing the Horn of Africa, where overfishing has led to piracy because no other viable options exist.

Meanwhile depletion continues by the last desperate fishermen who didn't turn pirate.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#65

Post by nickthemagicman »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #24
gepi79 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I agree that we should have the morality to defend Human Rights and to not tolerate poverty. Unfortunately no state in the world respects the Human Rights for its citizens. http://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/human-rights/ IMO not progressive taxes but progressive economics and progressive politics should be implemented. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2X_Ywepzm46_uGJDfRjYeQ/vid... IMO in a perfect w…

Perfect worlds are, probably, the worst of all possible outcomes. It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires. So it has always been and so shall it always be.

> It is unfortunate that how the world is conducted at any point in time is largely a result of the choices of those with the most power to bring about their desires.

This is scary but true. Why are human beings so primitive?

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#66

Post by nickthemagicman »

snarfy wrote: post #23
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

Generally, you exchange wealth for goods made from natural resources. If half the wealth is tied up in 8 people who could not possibly spend it, what do you think would happen to the earth's natural resources if it were suddenly dumped on the bottom 3 billion? It would be a huge boon to the economy at first, until we burnt through every resource.

What does that even mean? Are you saying that once money is spent it's gone forever?

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#67

Post by nickthemagicman »

Arnt wrote: post #33
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

Are you trying to say that if you buy a fishing boat with money you borrowedfrom Warren Buffett, then dynamiting the fish is understandable, but if you borrow from the ABC Pension Fund it's not?

I'm trying to say that with less inequality and more resources available to them, these people could go to the grocery store to feed their family, or go to school to get a profession...

Its not a complex idea at all.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#68

Post by nickthemagicman »

superflyguy wrote: post #53
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

Those 8 people must work really hard to have earned all that money.

They worked hard to get born to rich parents.

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#69

Post by nickthemagicman »

lopmotr wrote: post #8
nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

In a world where 8 people have more money than the bottom 3 BILLION people combined. You can blame the poor for surviving...or blame the rich for the greed that forces people to do this to survive.

Can you explain the causal link between those rich people's greed and this fishing technique? Is it because rich people enabled dynamite to be produced cheaply enough for them?

How efficient have rich people made the economies of 3rd world countries?

Re: In the Philippines, Dynamite Fishing Decimates Entire Ocean Food Chains

#70

Post by nickthemagicman »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #21
bshepard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because "richness" creates a pathologically competitive social system that encourages this sort of destruction activity in order to get the token that conveys value.

I’m going to argue pathologically competitive people are the causative factor rather than richness itself.

I'm going to argue that lack of resources(caused by inequality) makes people pathologically competitive.
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