Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April • Hacker News Board

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#61

Post by greglindahl » Tue, May 22, 2018, 4:50 AM UTC

houssc wrote: post #51

abduhl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.

It sounds like the key fob did work as others pointed out. However I'm sure there are still lots of unfinished things. When I was out in Chicago with my buddy late last year I got to drive the updated Model S and I noticed the windshield wipers wouldn't come on automatically whenever it rained. After digging through the menu we found a thing that said said something like "feature coming soon" for automatic wipers. Ki…

It's only Model S with AP2 that had that problem: the original S and the AP1 S both shipped with working automatic wipers on day 1.

But yes, that's the kind of thing you should expect from Tesla... just like you should expect that the missing-but-common feature of backup-lines on the backup camera to be retroactively added 3 years after the initial cars shipped. Yin and yang.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#62

Post by greglindahl » Tue, May 22, 2018, 4:52 AM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #53

rwbt wrote: post #3

A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic. > "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has…

> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always…

The 3 is so bottom-heavy that it could be that it naturally corners flat.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#63

Post by shaklee3 » Tue, May 22, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #42

rorso wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first-release Subaru XV wouldn't re-start lots during the stop-start feature... in traffic. You'd have to put it in park, completely turn the car off, take key out, put key back in, and restart the car. Turning off the stop-start was the "solution" offered online, which reset every time you got back in the car (so it was easy to forget). Also the entire entertainment unit would "crash" every couple days, and not w…

VW and Subaru don't rank near the top of anyone's reliability rankings. You don't seem bothered by the problems, but if you were you could always buy something like a Toyota/Lexus.

This is incorrect. Subaru is ranked second in realiability after Toyota in consumer reports.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#64

Post by greglindahl » Tue, May 22, 2018, 4:57 AM UTC

mmt wrote: post #55

greglindahl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla should absolutely be condemned for offering options, like every other carmaker.

Your sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation. Here's my actual criticism: Is there actually a $35k "option" (base model) yet? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". I'm not going so far as a condemnation, but I'd like to see reviews of that model before passing judgment. Also, is it common for "every other carmaker" to have that huge a difference in price within the same model, barring actual structural differences…

The $35k Model 3 will be released when they need to ship them -- until then, they're going to ship higher-priced higher-margin cars. (Even higher-priced dual motor and performance models just got released because production has finally gotten to a reasonable level and they're willing to introduce kinks in the production line.)

The same thing was done with Model S and Model X. I have air suspension because elsewise I would have had to wait longer than the 9 months I'd already waited in 2012-2013.

The only difference between the current cheapest 3 and the $35k model is battery size, which affects weight and the max performance.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#65

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Tue, May 22, 2018, 4:58 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #40

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What did you expect? Some actual engineering of a snap together framework at the very least? (Which would be even cheaper than just taping it together in the long run...) Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? I have never heard of a mirror "falling off" of any consumer car unless it was in some kind of accident... especially not after a few months of ownership... of a $56,000 car...

Some nuts and bolts, perhaps? It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly. Double-sided tape is an industry standard. Cars costing more and less than $56k use it. It just appears that it wasn't very good tape in this case. Good double-sided tape can stick very, very well.

>It's a piece of glass. Adding such fastening would increase the cost of assembly significantly.

But at least it would be guaranteed not lead to reviews of 3 month old cars where the glass mirrors were not falling off and making the company look poorly before it even gains mass adoption.

The engineering of early macbook pros was absolutely over the top and ridiculously expensive... but Apple knew that they were buying trust with that added expense.

You can't build trust with a taped on mirror that falls off into the lap of a powerful reviewer.

>Cars costing more and less than $56k use it

I'm sure that they do... but I suspect that the brands behind them have been around a bit longer than Tesla has.

If McDonalds serves me a crummy burger for the first time in the hundreds of times that I've frequented them... I'll forgive them and go back without hesitation.

If the brand new Uncle Ricks Burger Shack pops up and sells me an overpriced, crappy burger... I'm going to tell everyone I know never to waste their money at that lousy joint. (Before they've probably even had the chance to visit and make their own decisions!)

The Model 3 was Tesla's first start in the big leagues... they should have made sure that their mirrors were not falling off after a few months of regular use... that is the only point I am trying to make.

The fact that other car companies use tape to secure mirrors is irrelevant to my argument.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#66

Post by yathern » Tue, May 22, 2018, 5:01 AM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #53

rwbt wrote: post #3

A lot of annoyances, needless complicated door handles, buggy software. But this made me smile and the car enthusiast inside me is ecstatic. > "This car is a joy to drive on Angeles Crest Highway, and I don't say that lightly. Angeles Crest is a famously demanding road that winds up into the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles. You need brakes, power and a taut, balanced chassis to do it right. The Model 3 has…

> Body roll is minimal There are a couple of problems with the obsession for flat cornering. One is that its uncomfortable for people in the car, particularly passenger, who are pushed sideways into the seat-bolsters and side panels. More importantly is when lateral grip finally breaks there is no warning to the driver with a cocked wheel and gentle progression: it just lets go. As a counter-example Mazda have always…

I'm not sure I understand how having a flat body roll is worse than normal, in terms of passenger tiltiness.

Ideally, the car would bank, rolling opposite. Then the force of the turn would push you into your seat, rather than out of it. But I'm probably misunderstanding something.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#67

Post by mdeeks » Tue, May 22, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #16

mdeeks wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood. He is saying the feature where it recognizes your phone is near the car and unlocks wasn’t working. The key fob and opening the app manually still work.

Tesla doesn't give you a fob. You just have your phone, and the valet/guest card.

Yeah, I misspoke. It's a card not a fob. Like others said, it isn't a valet/guest card. It is actually the main "key" to your car in addition to your phone.

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#68

Post by justin66 » Tue, May 22, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

mmt wrote: post #50

greglindahl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch, while with regenerative brakes, you're saving energy. I find that one-pedal driving makes me much more mellow: I play a game where I try to never have to use the actual brakes. Disclaimer: my first clutch lasted 120,000 miles.

> Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch Huh? How is engine braking (or, for that matter anything ) on a fully-engaged dry clutch going to reduce its lifetime?

It won't. Unless the clutch is damaged and slipping, or slipping because your foot is resting on the pedal, it's all locked together and it's not going to wear. You will always cause a bit of wear to the clutch while shifting, but that's a different conversation. (with all the rev matching that the newest manual transmissions will do for you, I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger car will become a thing of the past, but it's too soon to say for sure)

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#69

Post by greglindahl » Tue, May 22, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #68

mmt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except with a manual, you're reducing the lifetime of your clutch Huh? How is engine braking (or, for that matter anything ) on a fully-engaged dry clutch going to reduce its lifetime?

It won't. Unless the clutch is damaged and slipping, or slipping because your foot is resting on the pedal, it's all locked together and it's not going to wear. You will always cause a bit of wear to the clutch while shifting, but that's a different conversation. (with all the rev matching that the newest manual transmissions will do for you, I wonder if replacing clutches during the normal lifetime of a passenger ca…

Well, if most cars become electric and have one gear, it's safe to say that your question will be answered "yes".

Re: Edmunds Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test Update for April

#70

Post by justin66 » Tue, May 22, 2018, 5:23 AM UTC

shaklee3 wrote: post #63

justin66 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW and Subaru don't rank near the top of anyone's reliability rankings. You don't seem bothered by the problems, but if you were you could always buy something like a Toyota/Lexus.

This is incorrect. Subaru is ranked second in realiability after Toyota in consumer reports.

I guess I was thinking of: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

and yeah, Subaru doesn't rank too badly (sixth) on that list. I always thought of Subarus as being good, long-term powertrain reliability notwithstanding. The gas mileage they're getting while running normally-aspirated, full-time AWD powertrains is pretty impressive. I can't imagine why the parent's car was so utterly screwed up, but I wouldn't be happy about a problem that required me to turn the car off and take the key out.

I think the advice on getting a Toyota or a Lexus if you want to maximize your odds of not having problems like the parent described still stands. The conventional wisdom is that their reliability comes from making continuous small changes to their models instead of waiting to make major changes, although next year's Corolla hatchback looks like a pretty major one. It will be interesting to see what the first-year reliability of that model is.