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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#61

Post by dragonwriter »

zdragnar wrote: post #14
Kiro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if your service requires the tracking?

Consent isn't required for data collection that is necessary for the service to work. However, you have to be prepared to defend in court that it IS necessary. As such, trackers in 3rd-party advertising network code probably won't count as necessary; it's necessary for the ad network, but it is not necessary for the website displaying the advertisements, as proven by ad-blockers. Likewise, the facebook like button an…

> However, you have to be prepared to defend in court that it IS necessary.

I'm pretty sure Facebook has the resources to have hired competent lawyers to advise them on that, and the money to afford preparation and execution of a strong court presentation of their viewpoint.

And Facebook probably had more information on what is necessary for the system Facebook provides to work than people trying to guess that from the outside.

It is, of course, possible, and, perhaps even likely, that a court will disagree with what they argue, and force a change—but it may be, from a PR perspective, worth the cost of non-compliance sanctions to have any decrease in utility resulting from changes they will be compelled to make to be very visibly forced on them by orders that they vigorously fought rather than self-initiated, so that European authorities and the GDPR get the blame for any reduced quality.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#63

Post by mrweasel »

ovao wrote: post #29
gonmf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

It's disconcerting to me that under the GDPR, online businesses appear to be losing the ability to deny services to a user who knowingly, and with clear consent, chooses to take personal responsibility over the data they provide to said businesses. Regardless of whether this is for the "greater good", this is deeply unsettling territory.

You're not allow to operate that way in most other businesses anyway. You can't sell leaded paint, even if clearly marked. You can't sell unsafe cars, even if you tell people that even low speed impacts will kill them.

There's a ton of stuff you can't do, even with clear consent, because otherwise people who lack the means to understand the compromises or afford the safer choices will suffer.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#65

Post by zdragnar »

lotu wrote: post #45
andai wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean to say that Facebook's existence isn't entirely dependent on selling personal information to advertisers?

My understanding is that Facebook doesn’t actually sell data to advertisers. By this I mean you can’t go to Facebook and say, “I would like to buy data for 10,000 18-24 year old males in New York City, how much?” Instead you say, “I have an ad I want to show to 10,000 18-24 year old males in NYC, how much?” Facebook then handles serving the ad for you and sends you data about how succufull your campaigne was, when pe…

Unfortunately, if I run an ad targeting 18-24 year old males in New York City, and my ad manages to collect IP addresses, I have effectively purchased information about anyone who sees my ad.

It's certainly not a complete profile, and may have ranges of categorizations (i.e. 18-24 years old) BUT as an advertiser, I probably wouldn't need or want data more specific than that anyway.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#66

Post by ucaetano »

hedora wrote: post #55
ucaetano wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We require tracking to pay for the costs of providing this free service". No such thing as a free lunch.

“We sell your credit card number on the black market to pay the costs of this free service”. Also illegal.

Selling the credit card is illegal, serving targeted ads isn't.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#67

Post by [deleted] »

ClassAndBurn wrote: post #42

GDPR doesn't cover enough of the population using Facebook to warrant such a change to their business model where you can use the service without them using your data. They believe they are entrenched enough to just require this (and likely are for many EU residents).

[deleted]

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#68

Post by Tharkun »

star-castle wrote: post #43
Havoc wrote: post #39

Do you consent to this cavity search? (Required to board plane)

That's basically how it works in the US, yes.

Not just the US. Most of the western world has incredibly invasive security theatre in airports and train stations now.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#69

Post by mrweasel »

znpy wrote: post #64
tonyjstark wrote: post #53

Is it possible to delete my facebook account without consenting to usage of my data? So can I access the delete page without consent?

I'm gonna guess that no, you can't. That's what I would expect from Facebook.

Greate, so now my account will just exist in some state of limbo...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#70

Post by spullara »

gonmf wrote: post #17
star-castle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what? seriously? Do EU citizens have some kind of legal right to Facebook access, now? It's illegal for Facebook to not serve people they can't sell to advertisers? I'd love it if Facebook were nationalized (or destroyed), but none of the coverage of the GDPR made it sound like it was going in that direction. I thought it was just another stupid "click here to acknowledge our cookies" rule that was going to spam up t…

There is no legal right to Facebook, but if Facebook wants to do business here, it has to abide by our rules. And our rules are very simple, you cannot deny service because the user doesn't allow tracking if tracking is not necessary for your service to work. And it isn't in this case, it's only necessary to deliver higher paying ads. Since they are being selective on the users they accept based on being tracked, the…

Since they use that data to sort your feed I think they can argue it is necessary for the service to operate.
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