Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

stackoverflow.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 739 posts

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#61

Post by ggregoire »

I've been an active user for 7 years… and I lived my very first case of moderator abuse last week.

A moderator closed a 1.5 year old question[1] with 20 upvotes, 25 stars, 9000 views and an answer at 28 upvotes without any vote or consultation, because it was too broad for him. StackOverflow has all the tools to allow the users to moderate the platform by themselves, kinda democratically. From my experience, it works and the decisions are most of the time justified. Then it's mind blowing that someone can skip all the closing process/votes and close a well-rated question with a useful answer in his sole opinion.

And there is no way to report/flag/discuss a moderator actions on Stack Overflow. You can at least do that on Wikipedia.

[1]: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41250087/how-to-deploy-a...

Edit: the question has received 5 votes to reopen, thanks HN!

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#62

Post by rhapsodic » 

  > It was hard to accept some of the (valid) criticism,
  > especially the idea that women and people of color felt 
  > particularly unwelcome.
The article fails to offer any examples women or POC were treated more shabbily because of their gender or color. Does anyone know where this is coming from?

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#64

Post by PhasmaFelis »

The weird thing about SO is that it's not for answering questions asked by users. It's for pre-emptively answering questions that people might search for later.

I know that sounds like a meaningless distinction, but questions can be (and often are) closed for being too specific. Like, "this question is well-researched and well-presented, but you're not allowed to ask it here because it's unlikely to come up for anyone else."

That's such a bafflingly bizarre attitude that I really don't know what else to say.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#65

Post by lainga »

warent wrote: post #45

I've experienced a form of hostility in StackOverflow just recently--as in a couple of days ago. On a whim, I visited the website and answered a couple questions, something I'd never done before. I realized it was actually a lot of fun, so I started rapidly answering the all JavaScript questions I could as they were asked. Suddenly a "higher ranking" individual started leaving comments on my answers that I needed to…

Same situation as Wikipedia: Absolute power corrupts absolutely - but so does a small, petty amount.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#67

Post by weberc2 »

politician wrote: post #36

There seems to be a recent tendency where web-based business that wish to make changes to their platforms cite lack of inclusiveness for the main reason for the change. SO is a trash fire. For everyone, not "women", not "people of color", not "people without color", not "groups". Everyone. It's an openly hostile place where mods close questions unrelated to their expertise based on the whims of those in private chat…

I agree that SO has an arrogance problem and the diversity appeal is pandering, but the "trash fire" characterization is too hyperbolic. The site is still immensely useful if suboptimal.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#68

Post by wwweston »

For everybody who's questioning the premise that there is some kind of special hostility to newbies, women, PoCs and others, consider this:

* How would you know whether there's a difference between the experience of these groups and the baseline level of friction lots of people outside those groups experience?

* For the sake of argument, assume for a moment that there is no difference, and what those who feel singled out are experiencing is the baseline friction that they've mistakenly correlated with some aspect of their identity. Then the only way to address the issue is to address that baseline. If StackOverflow does this, it will mean the experience improves for everyone.

(If there is a difference, then the experience improves for everyone and the world is a bit fairer.)

* Is there anything in the specific list of areas SO has identified for improvement that really seems like a bad idea?

- Let’s shift from “don’t be an asshole” to “be welcoming.” ... “I wasn’t just tolerated; I was made to feel like the community was actually better because I was there.”

- let’s start by working with the community and our community managers to start flagging and deleting unkind comments now.

- Let’s make it easier for new users to succeed.

- Let’s stop judging users for not knowing things.

- Let’s reject the false dichotomy between quality and kindness.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#69

Post by retbull »

weberc2 wrote: post #48
fidels wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think what they mean is that when a minority goes to SO and they get a condescending response it's because of their race/ethnicity/gender. What they mean is that, since minorities might have insecurities about their ability to code because there are not that many people who look like them in the industry, when they receive a condescending response their insecurities aggravate. Therefore, SO can be consider mo…

I like your explanation--I hadn't thought of it and it's less cynical/more charitable than the obvious alternative (virtue signaling). But wouldn't the same be true of anyone with heightened insecurities? Why highlight minorities?

Because the community doesn't identify with them? Specific insecurities isn't something that can be addressed at a platform level but general ones like "am I a member of the group of programmers because I am black/female/gay/trans" can be better targeted. So they probably won't help everyone by doing this but they can help a large group of unserved people.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#70

Post by viggity »

Stack Overflow is naturally full of nerds. Nerds are pedants by nature. Are some answers bereft of friendliness? Of course. Are some answers rude and/or insulting? Sure, there are millions of them, its bound to happen. But how in the hell that specifically impacts women or poc more than a random white male is frankly beyond me.

I will say that being curt in some contexts has its advantages for the community. Linus is kind of notorious for being a bit ruthless in responding to various requests/suggestions. You have to be to some regard in order to set a high bar and drive success. I've been on SO since the very beginning and have had my own feathers a bit ruffled by responses I got when I was being sloppy. It drives quality. After a minor rebuke or two, I really try to put as much thought and effort into my questions as possible. I'm asking a group of strangers to solve my problem, I have certain responsibility to make it as easy on them as possible.

TL;DR - This exists but effects everybody not just women or poc. It could be more polite, but a bit of harshness drives quality.

Post reply on HN