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Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

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Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#31

Post by crispinb »

When I was active on SO I did often see unwelcoming behaviour. Closing questions as being dupes or offtopic, with no explanatory comments, was the most common thing. Infuriating too (and not only to new users) was the proliferation of bad edits, clearly undertaken by clueless people to try and amass points.

More of an irritant to me was the generally noisy and poor-quality content. I will only follow links to SO now in areas where I know enough to be able to filter for quality myself (usually it's wanting). From my perspective, the gamification schtick is a failure.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#32

Post by Randgalt »

I've always felt the problem was the moderators have too much control. A bad or dictatorial moderator can ruin an SO board. Hanlon seems to imply moderator changes but doesn't say anything specifically. So, I'm dubious until this is directly addressed.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#33

Post by kadenshep »

metalliqaz wrote: post #19

From the linked article: > Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups Breaking that down... "...people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place..." This is obvious just by looking at the discussions that happen here, or, even by observing the SO-related memes that bubble up to the top of Red…

It's almost like this was directly addressed in the article:

>especially the idea that women and people of color felt particularly unwelcome. There’s a weird paradox with bias. Those of us who have privilege, but care deeply about reducing bias should be uniquely positioned to help, but we struggle the hardest to recognize that we are (unintentionally) biased ourselves

And this line in your post:

>pointless virtue signaling.

Really nice recycled talking point. It also strikes at the heart of the above quote.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#34

Post by the8472 »

lukev wrote: post #11

> Feelings have no “technically correct.” They’re just what the feeler is telling you. When someone tells you how they feel, you can pack up your magnifying glass and clue kit, cuz that’s the answer. You’re done. This is such an important point and missed so often by technical types. Impressed to hear it stated so clearly here.

That is assuming people are not exaggerating or outright lying about their feelings to achieve some goal.

Since feelings can't be verified it costs little to not be truthful.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#36

Post by politician »

There seems to be a recent tendency where web-based business that wish to make changes to their platforms cite lack of inclusiveness for the main reason for the change.

SO is a trash fire. For everyone, not "women", not "people of color", not "people without color", not "groups". Everyone.

It's an openly hostile place where mods close questions unrelated to their expertise based on the whims of those in private chat rooms while belittling the questioner with those "your question was closed because X" explainer boxes.

It would be refreshing if they just said something like "We've realized that SO is a hostile place, and it's not better if you just happen to be a white man."

If you read their change list, nothing there has anything to do with "identity". It's just a list of very small tweaks.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#37

Post by ceejayoz »

ygra wrote: post #8
benjojo12 wrote: post #4

Personally, My primary frustration with Stack(Exchange|Overflow) sites is that I _can_ help people there, but I would need to confirm with them with a comment... and I can't because I don't have the points (???) to comment ,but I can answer. I end up closing the tab, If the site won't give me the basic tools to help someone, then what is the point of letting me sign up.

Them accepting your answer is your confirmation. Just answer and they usually will tell you whether it's correct or helpful. Comments should not be necessary in many cases.

I think "confirmation" here means "additional information that confirms my theory so I can write it up".

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#38

Post by fidels »

metalliqaz wrote: post #19

From the linked article: > Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups Breaking that down... "...people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place..." This is obvious just by looking at the discussions that happen here, or, even by observing the SO-related memes that bubble up to the top of Red…

I don't think what they mean is that when a minority goes to SO and they get a condescending response it's because of their race/ethnicity/gender.

What they mean is that, since minorities might have insecurities about their ability to code because there are not that many people who look like them in the industry, when they receive a condescending response their insecurities aggravate. Therefore, SO can be consider more hostile for minorities.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#39

Post by jowiar »

metalliqaz wrote: post #19

From the linked article: > Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups Breaking that down... "...people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place..." This is obvious just by looking at the discussions that happen here, or, even by observing the SO-related memes that bubble up to the top of Red…

> I don't post much because that's usually a waste of time

That's the particular problem that they're trying to figure out, with a broader version of "waste of time". Either "asking a question is met with hostility", or "posting a response is met with hostility".

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#40

Post by metalliqaz »

ygra wrote: post #8
benjojo12 wrote: post #4

Personally, My primary frustration with Stack(Exchange|Overflow) sites is that I _can_ help people there, but I would need to confirm with them with a comment... and I can't because I don't have the points (???) to comment ,but I can answer. I end up closing the tab, If the site won't give me the basic tools to help someone, then what is the point of letting me sign up.

Them accepting your answer is your confirmation. Just answer and they usually will tell you whether it's correct or helpful. Comments should not be necessary in many cases.

Yeah comments are probably meant to talk about the actual post, while answers are meant for the problem.
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