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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#61
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Not in cases where the deficits caused by the tweak are compensated for by modern culture. For example, it could be that natural selection made learning hard for adult humans in order to preserve scant knowledge in prehistorical times. But now that we have written culture this may no longer be necessary or desirable.

better example: depression and anxiety probably could have been selected by evolution to keep you out of danger, but in the modern minimally dangerous world no one would choose to have those traits if they could avoid them.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#62
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the dr…

> Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared My understanding is that ASD and ADHD are often found together. I don't have enough familiarity with either to know where one begins and the other starts. Thanks for sharing your perspective, as the parent of a child just diagnosed with both conditions it's useful!

They are often confused for each other, but I tend to think of ADHD as “ASD lite”. They have some of the same issues with focus and attention (esp with hyperfocus) but kids with ASD tend to show a lot more sensitivity to sensory perception. Loud noises, bright lights or uncomfortable textures become emotional outbursts. Hyperfocus also tends to be more of a constant state with ASD and can lead to emotional distress. Kids with ADHD get mad when they don’t get their way; kids with ASD get mad when they’re uncomfortable and don’t know how to express that or deal with it.

It all depends on the severity of the ASD though as to how constant it is.

I do almost feel a diagnosis of both is redundant though.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#63
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

That would imply that we've stopped evolving.

Honest question, what make you think we are still evolving?

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#64
post #18

Whoa. Though I often question if society should treat social deficits of autism even if such a treatment is effective without side-effects. Another solution would be for society to be generally more neuro-inclusive. I can't help but wonder if there are synergistic benefits from being able to have different ways of experiencing the world. (I don't have ASD; my step-daughter is on the spectrum).

Society is very difficult to change, and activist groups aren't pushing in that direction as a whole (Autism Self Advocacy Network is far smaller than Autism Speaks.) Drugs are easy to make acceptable as long as the medical establishment is ok with it.

Hell, not that long ago lobotomies were accepted by the medical community. This is the problem with conditions that place a heavy burden on the parents, there is an incentive to act against the best interests of the children.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#65
post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I found this NYT article from a while back fascinating. Basically this guy has TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) and he starts feeling more emotion. He discovers his wife is super controlling and ends up getting a divorce. He's not sure how much better his life actually gets from this "cure". https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-au...

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#66
post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less…

I think it depends on the person; but I personally see a lot of people I would identify as high-functioning people on the ASD spectrum working in senior management positions.

We are able to be successful exactly because we have learned to expertly regulate our public and private behaviors to be acceptable to the audience. We’re really deliberate about the soft skills stuff because it doesn’t come naturally. We do that because we can’t read your body language or facial expressions at all, so we have to be as completely inoffensive and congenial as possible.

Many of us have learned how to delegate effectively because there are certain kinds of work we simply cannot do.

We tend to be much better with written communication because it’s easier to compose your thoughts in a text editor than on the fly. As a result we are often seen as excellent communicators in the digital age!

We’re really good at making lists of things (I should probably stop that)

We also tend to talk at length of topics of very little interest to anyone else (ok, I’ll stop now.)

What I’m saying is that a lot of tendencies that are totally attributable to people on the high-functioning side of ASD can be generally beneficial to certain kinds of work. I’m sure you’ve seen these traits in people you know. So I’m not sure it’s always something that’s always detrimental.

Sure, I know a zillion people superficially but I can’t handle more than one or two friends at a time. And I’m ok with that; it’s not debilitating and I enjoy my time alone. I just don’t think it’s something to fix.

Edit: also not implying that all people on the spectrum are this way at all; just that I do see a lot of us in various management functions where Machiavellian politics is in play. Your image is everything and you have no friends, which someone with ASD and this personality profile will feel right at home with.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#67
Mostly parents will be into this. No one would do this to themselves as they will have similar feelings as most (they don't want to give up who they are).

Wether being on the spectrum has been good or bad for you; it is you.

However parents are really great here; they really don't give a crap about their kids feelings they just want the _best_ for him.

> What I mean is they don't want to be embarrassed by their child.

I know this for a fact ... I used to think my mother was trying to get me all the help in the world but no she wanted a normal child at all costs.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would imply that we've stopped evolving.

Honest question, what make you think we are still evolving?

Evolution is only apparent after the fact and on long time scales.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#70
I learned a lot about autism, cancer, and many causes (e.g. our food system, glyphosphate (weed killer), our sterile environment) from the endocrinologist and cancer researcher Dr Zach Bush on this podcast. Very fascinating stuff. http://www.richroll.com/podcast/zach-bush-353/
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