16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy? • Hacker News Board

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#61

Post by MarkCole » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

FRex wrote: post #42

MarkCole wrote: post #17

This reads a lot like an attack. Yes its clear they did not program their app 100% themselves. I fail to see how it's such a big deal. Especially one that requires posts on multiple platforms targeting her. The other developers seem happy for her to take the credit, presumably as its good for marketing. Who is this really hurting?

When someone very prominently says they made an app, someone else says they didn't and the first person responds with calling them jobless, disturbed and a harasser then the gloves are off. And it hardly reads like an attack to me anyway, there are no insults, no ill wishes to her career or life, it's just very firm.

> the first person responds with calling them jobless, disturbed and a harasser then the gloves are off

Well that reaction seems to have come after they were harrassed, called a dumb kid, and a lying piece of shit[1]. This is a 16 year old, they're going to make mistakes. This level of hate for something very minor is really out of proportion.

They did after all contribute at least partly towards the app, so it's more of an exaggeration than an all out lie.

[1] https://imgur.com/a/jFbQR

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#62

Post by cruisemaniac » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

076ae80a-3c97-4 wrote: post #16

She may not be good at developing apps but she is good a lying... > I’m not sure who is the “someone else” here. The app is published from Ravinder Singh Arora’s (my Dad) account. I can’t sign up for an Apple Developer account because I’m I created the app on my own :) https://medium.com/@harshitaisanerd/im-not-sure-who-is-the-s...

This seems to be the part that upset a lot of people including the OP.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#63

Post by FRex » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

Faaak wrote: post #58

FRex wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "If you manage to get social media on your side by endearing them then you can lie and steal" is the better lesson to teach a 16 year old. A 16 year old can waste his or her life by this age if he or she does really badly in school or smokes weed and gets caught. I can forgive teens for a lot of silly things like lying, cheating, petty crime, etc. but not doubling down when caught and creating a social media hat…

Being a kid is not a boolean value. You don't go from "being a kid" to "not being a kid". It's gradual. Some people are still kids at 19, others are quite mature at 17. Who knows, maybe her parents are pushing her a lot and she doesn't know how to react. We should give people the benefit of the doubt when we don't know the full story. She'll be forgiven in 2 months anyways..

> Being a kid is not a boolean value. You don't go from "being a kid" to "not being a kid". It's gradual. Some people are still kids at 19, others are quite mature at 17.

It actually is boolean for many laws but that's beside the point. Whatever a threshold is a person who makes apps so quickly, calls herself an entrepreneur and a programmer, all while highlighting her young age (ostensibly to show that she is more mature or skilled than others that age) has crossed it.

> Who knows, maybe her parents are pushing her a lot and she doesn't know how to react.

Then just like with "a team" it's a big issue if her parents pushed her to do it all or did it for her and should not be swept under the rug because it's a woman in tech or a teen.

> We should give people the benefit of the doubt when we don't know the full story.

Too bad the author of this post doesn't get that. Instead they got called names, accused of bullying and harassment of a teen, accused of driving women out of tech, flagged (here too for a while apparently), and pretty much told to fuck off and die. It's only more ironic that the author is a woman too (which in an ideal world should not matter in the dispute but in USA/tech industry it seems to, although I've seen plenty of woman vs. woman disputes online where one woman will claim the other who criticizes her has "internalized sexism").

> She'll be forgiven in 2 months anyways..

Well yes. No one is going to crucify her for this but plagiarism and being put on a pedestal for things you didn't do are (in theory, apparently it is if you are a woman judging by some of the comments here[0]) not acceptable and can't be revealed and then just defended (not even disputed) by tons of people because the perpetrator is a woman or teen and thus beyond criticism or fair attribution of work.

[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16307994

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#64

Post by simias » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

rep_movsd wrote: post #41

ealexhudson wrote: post #23

I have to say, I found the "story" very leading. A lot of inconclusive evidence labelled a lot stronger than it deserves, especially the "confession". The reality of a lot of app development now is that you can go a long way by not doing very much. Ok, so the git graph shows another developer committed many more lines: since when have we, as an industry, taken KLOC as a serious measure of anything?? Those lines of co…

I actually have the entire source code so I have enough evidence. Obviously I can't reveal it since it would be illegal. But she gave it to me of her own free will, and if you think 10000 lines can be SO'd then you live in a bubble

If you want us to believe you without giving any proof you'll have to give us more evidence. Why did she give you the (incriminating) source? Why can't you reveal it? What in said source code convinces you she didn't write it?

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#65

Post by LoSboccacc » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #30

tomaskafka wrote: post #15

> But after reading her blogpost, her stackoverflow/github history in an attempt to understand her struggles as a self-taught programmer; I figured that there was no struggle at all! Self taught programmers are full of numerous questions, but she didn’t seem to have any! Neither is there any progression of all the tasks she did. This is just one of possible approaches. For example, I actively ask very rarely, the mos…

This one jumped on me too. My history would quite the same and especially when I was younger. I would never ask under anything traceable back to me publicly. And I was always searching much more then actively asking, I asked online twice my whole life and got maybe one answer total. I would also keep stuff on my own disk until I thought it is progressed enough etc. I was too insecure to show progress, because progres…

"when I was younger" is a risky point of view: i.e. when I was younger I wrote a cycling manager game that was really a very very modded gorilla.bas, and there was no internet to use, only the inline help and that was it. that mindset of figuring things out by incremental change and debugging thoroughly sticks, and even if now I can say I'm used to stack overflow and the like I do see programmer that grew up in a fully connected social world do rely a lot more on the network to find answers than me.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#66

Post by scottishfiction » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #53

scottishfiction wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it is. I suspect it's intended as a genuine term of endearment and the author is oblivious to the negative connotation. Still unfortunate.

I find it odd that someone who was writing a paragraph about sexism in tech (or any industry) wouldn’t be aware of the negative connotation - but your explanation could be right.

I find it odd too.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#67

Post by not_okay » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

The author of the article comes across poorly here - this is nothing more than bullying and harassment of the app developer, just because they didn't meet the exacting standards of this critic.

So the app developer had some mentorship, and probably copied and pasted a handful of code snippets she didn't have a deep understanding of. So what? That doesn't justify this completely over the top reaction.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#68

Post by astura » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #12

jjevanoorschot wrote: post #3

"Such kind of people give Women in Code a really, really bad name, because sweetie, it takes tonnes of hardwork, cutting through competition, persistent dealing with sexism and lot of patience to make place for yourself in this male-dominant coveted industry." It's quite ironic that in a sentence about sexism and a male-dominated industry, the author addresses the developer by 'sweetie'.

In my experience, "sweetie" is a word older women use condescendingly towards younger men or women.

My experience is different, the only people I've ever heard use "Sweetie," besides towards children, is older men being condescending towards younger women, making sure they know their place, and older men who use it towards younger women as a term of endearment unaware that it's usually used in a condescending manner. I've literally never heard an woman say it outside of speaking to children, however, I think it might be acceptable to use in the American South, at least stereotypically, I've only spent a few days in the South myself.

That being said, I believe this particular use was intended to be ironic/sarcastic. Though it ends up being just a distraction.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#69

Post by whatshisface » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #9

psergeant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe sweetie is a gendered word?

It seems to be one of those loaded words that's often used by a certain type of man to put women "in their place".

I've also seen it used in Tumblr posts which were written with absolutely no harmful intent. It's imaginable that the author of that page had used the word in a not-mean way before in their lives, and especially likely that dripping sarcasm doesn't come through in text.

As for the actual article, I guess it goes to show that this "kid genius" media stuff is always self-interested on the part of the institutions and rarely if ever benefits any kids.

Re: 16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

#70

Post by wil421 » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #9

psergeant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe sweetie is a gendered word?

It seems to be one of those loaded words that's often used by a certain type of man to put women "in their place".

I hear sweetie or sweetheart a lot more from older women talking to younger adults/teenagers or kids. Maybe it’s the South.