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Re: undefined

#61

Threads like this getting buried on HN are a symptom of the ideological intolerance and echo-chamber problems that lead to people like the interviewer never having encountered Peterson's ideas before.

No, it's a symptom of HN not being a place for ideological battle. Users flag such posts, presumably for that reason.

If you want a site dedicated to this sort of disputation, there are other places to find that, and room for new forums as well.

There's a class of users who only want to fight these same fights over and over again, they're a minority, they're not using HN in its intended spirit, and they shouldn't have the ability to fundamentally alter it for the users who do.

Re: undefined

#62
post #9

This post is rocketing down the list. It was number 1 just 10 minutes or so ago, then it went to 6, now it's 36. Is that normal or is this post being moderated or brigaded? edit: And now it's gone completely from the list with 74 points... edit 2: Ok now it's back... wtf mods make up your mind about what we're allowed to see edit 3: All the comments in this thread are getting brigaded down.

Mods didn't do anything. Users flagged it. The tug of war between upvotes and flags is the eternal cycle of life on HN; you could not be describing anything more routine.

Re: undefined

#63
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN can probably only handle one of these at a time, if that. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16182318 )

Exactly, interestingly one of these threads had flags turned off, the other one did not.

I turned flags off as an experiment to see if HN could have an interesting, civil discussion. I would not call it a great success. Nevertheless the article itself seemed to me to provide a much better initial basis for such a discussion—regardless of whether one agreed with it—than one like this, which appeals mostly to narrow partisans on both sides.

Re: undefined

#64
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your view on the prevalence of unsupported prejudice (racism, xenophobia, etc)? I don't really understand why SJW groups don't sue people for their racist/"nazist" remarks, other than it's expensive. There are some famous cases https://www.cnet.com/news/taking-trolls-to-court-lawsuit-tar... , but probably SJWs want instant gratification, hence the punching. That doesn't make it acceptable, mostly because it's…

> What's your view on the prevalence of unsupported prejudice I don't like the careless negativity about non-european people that you see on the alt-right, but I see much more casual negativity towards europeans on the left that goes uncommented on. Broadly I'm coming to agree with Greg Johnson: the best way for peoples to get along is for each people to have their own sovereign country, and I don't think that has to…

Huh. That's a pretty simplistic view, to the point of uselessness.

Voluntary segregation works to a degree, but the nation state model breaks down fast when you consider different groups within. Just look at the problems in Israel with the Ultra Orthodox people, they are hard liners on many issues (women's rights for example).

And what does European mean in the context of the US? Should they just pack up and come home and give the land back to the various native tribes?

Because currently the Nazi problem (white supremacy, racism, fixed gender roles, fixed family structure, fixed sexual orientation - but let's simply focus on the racism thing) is that radical progressives rattle the cage because they see the systemic injustice against natives/others. And reservations (giving [not taking, in this case] land to people) haven't solved shit, they're still hopeless addicts (alcohol/opioids/etc).

In this sense the problem is, that people have too little minds, they lack the big picture. Some people (SJWs) see the injustice and want to go and cuddle the addicts, and blame the people who are better off; whereas other people (alt-right) point at the addicts and have the audacity to sincerely ask "how much money do we want to pour into them?", while of course both groups missing the point that there's a reason why they are worse off.

Accepting that yeah, it'd be good for the natives as a group to "move on" psychologically - even if very strictly speaking it's their right to hold a nihilistic apocalyptic view of the world (after all, their world ended more than a hundred years ago [the last skirmish happened almost exactly 100 years ago in 1918 January]), or accepting that maybe there really was no dog whistling in the H&M jungle monkey hoodie, all of these, of course, doesn't address the current situation of easy to describe groups (like "inner city blacks") having serious problems, and the seemingly paradoxical treatment (give them enough welfare, so they can wither away their lives on cheap drugs).

Indeed, the rationally obvious strategy is to set up a nice and fair triage process and let that decide how much effort/resource should be allocated to solving/treating the problems of various regions, groups, substance abuse patterns, different manifestations of poverty and lack of social mobility. This way it might turn out that solving the problem of Appalachian (mainly white trash) abusing prescription drugs has a higher priority than solving inner city poverty. Or more likely it'll turn out that both need attention, both need resources, both present some high cost-benefit ways to reduce the problems, yet neither are completely solvable withing a generation, nor are either somehow morally more important than the other, but they are both severely worsened by ideologically muddy approach by previous (federal, state and local) administrations and power structures (such as perceived and real admission difference of universities between the aforementioned disadvantaged groups).

Re: undefined

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The interviewer's style is something akin to this: Peterson: "Since they are human beings, women are mortal." Interviewer: "So you're saying that all women should be murdered." That is only a slight exaggeration of what she was doing. He would say something, then she would respond with "So you're saying...(some hot-button statement totally unrelated to what he actually said)". I give him a lot of credit for rema…

Cathy Newman allowed Peterson to answer to all of her intentional misinterpretations. Peterson clearly enjoyed that intellectually challenging interview.

Challenging for the interviewer you mean. He didn't break a sweat.

Re: undefined

#66
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that tactic works poorly in that format at all, it's just that this person is incredibly good at defending against it. Very few people could withstand such an interview.

Jordan Peterson might have defended well compared to an average person, but I was still surprised too see him uncomfortable and expending extra energy to answer the questions than what I expected. Those were hard questions, but he would have surely expected those kind of questions before going to the interview. He did not look well prepared, and some of his answers lacked the clarity and punch which we can usually se…

How could anyone not expend extra energy when faced with that sort of interview "technique". I thought he handled it very well. How did he not look prepared? Some of here questions were so off the point of what they were discussing it'd be hard not to react aggressively. I think that's what you're seeing, him holding back. I mean, we should organise our society like "the lobsters"?? WTF?
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