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Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

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Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#61

Post by aaron-lebo »

icebraining wrote: post #34
ams6110 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I can see wanting to live an extra 20-30 years if you're 60. Less so if you're 80. Starts to get weird if you're over 100. I'll be happy if I make 75 and I'll view every day after that as a gift and not something I deserve.

I can understand personally not waiting to live over an arbitrary age, since that's a subjective feeling. It just seems weird to consider it an universal point and deem everyone who doesn't to be morally defective. What's the objective basis for that?

I'm sorry, "weird" in this context just means "whoa dude, that's weird to consider". It's not an argument of morality. You can lack empathy and still be fairly moral.

But these are just thoughts, happy to be wrong.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#62

Post by anigbrowl »

matthberg wrote: post #26
bagacrap wrote: post #20

I can't tell where they flipped the directionality around for the headline, because the first line of the article is "People with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to perceived inequality" and the rest of the article sticks to that finding. It seems intuitive that people with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to X, for all X.

It looks like the author is assuming the converse, and also assuming that perceiving inequality is the same as being unselfish. All in all, the title is quite misleading.

That only makes sense if you mentally edit out the words 'feel bad about' from before 'perceived inequality'. If your interpretation depends on ignoring a whole clause, it's flawed.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#63

Post by ams6110 »

ozmodiar wrote: post #15
k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

The article resonated with me. I find inequality very upsetting and can be prone to depression. I wouldn't say that the depression is caused by a lack of reciprocity in others. If anything I've found that almost everyone, even otherwise 'selfish' people, can be extremely generous if they view you as someone who does good by others. I'm also no fool if I know someone is trying to rip me off. I do think the depression…

It's helpful to be realistic about the world. People should have equal opportunity but equal outcomes are impossible. People have different levels of intelligence and motivation, different interests, different values.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#64

Post by racer-v »

bagacrap wrote: post #20

I can't tell where they flipped the directionality around for the headline, because the first line of the article is "People with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to perceived inequality" and the rest of the article sticks to that finding. It seems intuitive that people with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to X, for all X.

Nope - clinical depression is different from "feeling bad in response" to a specific stimulus. If you do something hurtful to me and I feel bad about it, that's not depression. When nothing is happening and I feel bad in general, that's depression.

The article says, people who feel bad in response to specific types of stimulus (a perceived slight), rather than just shrugging it off, are more likely to develop full-blown clinical depression down the line.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#65

Post by scruple »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

I could rant about this for hours. I think these situations do occur and for the reasons you presume but their root cause is in poor communication of expectations between the unselfish folks and those they are helping.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#66

Post by manmal »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #46
drngdds wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'd have it much better than all the people who had to die. But I already have it much better than all the people who are killed or crippled by preventable illnesses because they were unlucky enough to be born into poverty. But that doesn't really factor into my moral reasoning. My living forever wouldn't necessarily make things worse for people who don't get to do that. So, as a consequentialist, I don't think…

That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…

Nobody deserves anything. If humans can survive forever, most will (BTW I‘ve read somewhere that your half-life would still be 600 years or so due to serious accidents). Not WANTING to survive as long as possible is IMO pathological thinking. Sure, there are reasons why you would rather not have humans live longer.. but why not long for it?

Also, if you live forever, almost everybody will be able to make a lasting impact on society, sooner or later.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#67

Post by 3131s »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #56
NhanH wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a threshold of years when the wish to live for X years change from normal to irrationally ego driven? Or are you asserting that any wish to live is irrationally ego driven? Is there a quanlitative or kind difference, under your view, for someone wishing to live 50, 500 or 5000 years? Or to put it in plain words and as I can't find a way to make it less confusing: why isn't your position equivalent to advocat…

Humans have natural lifespans. We've had very few people live to be older than 120. There's no reason to not naturally extend your life if you can, but I'm not sure we'll find that experience all that enjoyable as individuals (or it will require a disconnect to do so) and it isn't obvious there is any benefit to society from it (imagine Howard Hughes still directing his empire from his hotel penthouse today). It's a…

I really don't understand your point either. Imagine Srinivasa Ramanujan living to be 500 years old rather than 32, or Leonardo Da Vinci still being alive today -- their contributions to society would be immense.

We've been seeking to and succeeding at extending our natural lifespans since forever. The only sensible argument against it is that the planet would eventually be overcrowded, assuming we don't become interplanetary any time soon.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#68

Post by anigbrowl »

bagacrap wrote: post #20

I can't tell where they flipped the directionality around for the headline, because the first line of the article is "People with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to perceived inequality" and the rest of the article sticks to that finding. It seems intuitive that people with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to X, for all X.

It seems intuitive that people with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to X, for all X.

Nonsense. Depressed people are not just sad about everything, and depression affects selfish and unselfish people alike. Trying to derive general laws from shallow stereotypes is likely to compound misconceptions. Doing so to engage in pedantic critiques of a headline while ignoring the rest of the article is just a waste of time for everyone.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#69

Post by eduren »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #46
drngdds wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'd have it much better than all the people who had to die. But I already have it much better than all the people who are killed or crippled by preventable illnesses because they were unlucky enough to be born into poverty. But that doesn't really factor into my moral reasoning. My living forever wouldn't necessarily make things worse for people who don't get to do that. So, as a consequentialist, I don't think…

That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…

>Why do you want to live forever?

I'm not sure why this is a question. Barring inhumane levels of pain (emotional or physical), living is always preferable to death.

>Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world

Agree, we are all dust in the wind etc, etc. But why does that matter? Should I decide to stop living at 27 because my trajectory means I won't accomplish anything with my life?

Personally, the strongest motivator to live as long as possible is to experience as much "existence" as possible. My lifetime is constricted to the 21st century right now and that means I will never experience humanity's future. Sure, it will happen regardless whether I'm there to experience it, but that won't matter to me, I'll be dead.

If wanting to experience life is selfish, then I'm sorry for being born (not directed at you, just in general).

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#70

Post by greggman »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #46
drngdds wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'd have it much better than all the people who had to die. But I already have it much better than all the people who are killed or crippled by preventable illnesses because they were unlucky enough to be born into poverty. But that doesn't really factor into my moral reasoning. My living forever wouldn't necessarily make things worse for people who don't get to do that. So, as a consequentialist, I don't think…

That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…

My own perspective (which I can already tell you'll likely disagree with) is that I want to live forever to remove the burden of having to choose only 1 to 2 more major experiences in my life (I'm 52).

As an example I leaned Japanese. To do so I moved to Japan at 33. My experience there tells me if I want to learn Chinese and actually remember it I need to move to China for 6-8 years. Given I only have 20-30 years left and probably less in pure freedom of movement (meaning my body will get old and limit where I live and what I can do), then ATM I only get to choose 1, 2 or 3 more major things to do with my life. If I could live forever I'd choose to do all of them knowing I have plenty of time left. I'd spend 8+ years in China. Maybe 6+ years in Germany and 6+ in France and 6+ in Italy and 6+ in Spain and a few in South American countries and then others. I'd go back to school and learn various topics spending several years in each.

I don't agree with your assertion wanting to live a long long time has anything to do with ego. People used to only live to an average of 30. Today I saw a program on Japanese TV showing they have 60000 people over 100 years old. They showed several having productive lives, some were still running stores. One was a hairdresser. She still loved meeting and talking to people while cutting their hair. She was 102. The current stats say that 60k number will be 120k in only 3 more years.

What does the fact the people in the past died have anything to do with anything? People in the past died of all kinds of diseases so people now are ego driven to use the tech that prevents those diseases? I also see no relation to empathy. In fact the older I get the more empathy I seem to have.

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