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Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

nytimes.com

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Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#61

Post by mark_edward »

nslav wrote: post #45
Klockan wrote: post #19

> The pastor was outraged to learn that, under the terms of their employment, Cuban doctors earn only about a quarter of the amount the Brazilian government pays Cuba for their services. This is how Sweden finances their free education as well, it is called taxes. The problem isn't with how Cuba treats specifically doctors but how Cuba refuses to let people emigrate in general.

Yes that confused me a bit as well... I work for a US-based engineering company and they bill clients 3 - 4x what I earn for my work. Am I misunderstanding something about the article?

Yes. It's propaganda.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#62

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

notyourday wrote: post #36
emodendroket wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no kidding, because they have already acquired skills that will allow them a comfortable lifestyle in the US and don't have to deal with any of the downsides.

Unlikely. Medical degrees from Cuba aren't portable what so ever. Cuban doctors are nowhere close to what Americans expect -- don't get me wrong, they are perfectly fine performing basic medical services but don't expect them to know how to use any modern equipment or be familiar with modern protocols used in the West. What is it far more likely is that those who actually live the glorious communist future would make…

>Medical degrees from Cuba aren't portable what so ever. Cuban doctors are nowhere close to what Americans expect -- don't get me wrong, they are perfectly fine performing basic medical services but don't expect them to know how to use any modern equipment or be familiar with modern protocols used in the West.

Haha, what? Look up ELAM. There are ELAM educated doctors living and working in the US today.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#63

Post by ue_ »

briandear wrote: post #43
ue_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's possible to critique both systems; the American (capitalist) system in which you need to pay huge amounts for education in order to have the mere chance to get a job that's above sustenace wage, the system screwing over especially those who can't afford to pay back debt; the Cuban system in which your training is free of charge but you cannot apply your skills such that you receive above sustenance wage.…

Plumbers and electricians make great money and they aren’t incurring debt to do so. Plumbers, especially self employed ones, make more than your average “marketing assistant” or some other job that requires a degree. Plenty of people go to school and don’t rack up tens of thousands in debt. The question we should be asking is why does education cost keep expanding so quickly: cost inflation is much higher than even h…

>Don’t blame capitalism because capitalism would never support the artificial cost inflation caused by government intervention.

What is capitalism other than the system of predominant wage-labour, private ownership of socially productive property (supported by the state), capital accumulation and class society? The idea that capitalism cannot be blamed for the fact that people are required to obey the whims of speculators in the market, to tailor their ambitions such as to maximise wage rather than to pursue enjoyment and the replacement of relations between people with relations between commodities is absurd.

Capitalism "supports" whatever will make a profit; in this case, student loans turn profits. Why would this system of student loans not occur under government intervention? There clearly exist private loan agencies.

To be clear I'm not speaking in favour of the Cuban system, so please don't assume that I am.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#64

Post by varjag »

nsxwolf wrote: post #53

The SV atitude on communism threads is always interesting. Communism is great, quit whining you greedy doctors. Helping people is its own reward! But for me? No no, I'm a developer! I deserve my salary!

I once reported to a department manager who was an anarchist. He had pretty tight control structure in the org without any disregard to hierarchy.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#67

Post by ue_ »

pdpgxpgxydx wrote: post #56
ue_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's possible to critique both systems; the American (capitalist) system in which you need to pay huge amounts for education in order to have the mere chance to get a job that's above sustenace wage, the system screwing over especially those who can't afford to pay back debt; the Cuban system in which your training is free of charge but you cannot apply your skills such that you receive above sustenance wage.…

If the Cuban government is making those decisions it's not communism, it's state capitalism. In socialism, workers own the means of production collectively, and have voting power and representation in their workplace.

I agree, this is what I was trying to get at.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#68

Post by baby »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #40

Right now Nazism is rightfully consigned to the trash heap of history and mostly people don't talk about it in polite company. Communism should also undergo the same fate. It probably has the highest body count of any ideology (see Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro ) and is the only ideology where a country built a wall, not keep people from coming in, but to keep people from leaving. It has made millions of people misera…

What about capitalism America where you don't deserve healthcare if you can't afford it? People are dying because of this shit too.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#69

Post by allemagne »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #40

Right now Nazism is rightfully consigned to the trash heap of history and mostly people don't talk about it in polite company. Communism should also undergo the same fate. It probably has the highest body count of any ideology (see Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro ) and is the only ideology where a country built a wall, not keep people from coming in, but to keep people from leaving. It has made millions of people misera…

If you can lay blame for Mao's famines at the feet of Karl Marx, then why not assign the deaths of the 30 Years War directly to Jesus?

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#70

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

colomon wrote: post #47
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Okay, just for fun I punched this into a loan calculator. Assume the cost of their medical education is $200,000. (Everything here is USD.) A ten-year loan at 10% interest would require paying $2,643.01 a month. According to the article, the Cuban government is making about $2,700 a month on each doctor in Brazil. So even if you factor in free medical education, it's hard to argue the doctors still owe the Cuban gove…

Yes but that is the difference between a loan system and a welfare system, you're not just paying for the services you received, you're paying for the availability of all services (including ones you didn't use) for all people.
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