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Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

nytimes.com

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Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#41

Post by jondubois »

nradov wrote: post #6
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Cuba is explicitly organized around keeping the Castros and their cronies in power. Propaganda aside, giving everybody a chance to succeed was never an actual organizing principle.

I think that there is a bit of truth to both arguments.

There are a lot of very smart people in the west who never had the chance to study medicine (there seem to be a lot of American janitors with high IQs...) - Under a communist regime, those who are mentally able to become a doctor can generally do so; in the west there are many financial and social hurdles. Communism removes the element of luck from the system.

I don't think it's quite fair to portray the doctors as having being treated unfairly though I also understand that it might feel that way.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#42

Post by dharma1 »

smt88 wrote: post #12
jwilliams wrote: post #5

In Cuba often tourist dollars greatly outstrip the local economy. So you're ending up with a situation where qualified doctors are moving in to tourism - waiters, doormen - to earn more money.

Where did you learn about this? I'd like to investigate in more detail.

Same experience here when I was there for a couple of months. Taxi drivers (and some other tourism related jobs) get paid and tipped in dollars. Easily 10-50x the income of a doctor being paid the equivalent of $30 in Cuban pesos

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#43

Post by briandear »

ue_ wrote: post #29
mratzloff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure American doctors would pay down their debt quite quickly if they lived like a Cuban doctor and nearly their entire paycheck went to school loans. Ultimately, if you think it's such a good deal, I'm sure Cuba would let you defect and go to medical school for the opportunity to earn $30/month like she does in Cuba.

I think it's possible to critique both systems; the American (capitalist) system in which you need to pay huge amounts for education in order to have the mere chance to get a job that's above sustenace wage, the system screwing over especially those who can't afford to pay back debt; the Cuban system in which your training is free of charge but you cannot apply your skills such that you receive above sustenance wage.…

Plumbers and electricians make great money and they aren’t incurring debt to do so. Plumbers, especially self employed ones, make more than your average “marketing assistant” or some other job that requires a degree.

Plenty of people go to school and don’t rack up tens of thousands in debt.

The question we should be asking is why does education cost keep expanding so quickly: cost inflation is much higher than even healthcare. It isn’t “capitalism” it’s actually the he fact that student loan availability distorts the market. Eliminate student loans and costs will drop like a rock to a level the actual market supports. Don’t blame capitalism because capitalism would never support the artificial cost inflation caused by government intervention.

If Big Macs were subsidized as much as universities, they’d cost $100 because McDonald’s knows that if you can’t afford it, the government will be there to help.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#44

Post by jerkstate »

adrianN wrote: post #28
jerkstate wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. In non-communist countries, it is possible to pay off your education debt, and profit from your hard work thereafter. In Cuba, it isn't.

I live in a non-communist country and still got all my education for free. There aren't just two political systems, the American one and dirty communism.

The last thing I intended to do was defend the totally broken American education system, where the costs are inflated by subsidized loans which were purportedly intended to increase access but actually work to move us closer to an indentured servitude system like they have in Cuba.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#45

Post by nslav »

Klockan wrote: post #19

> The pastor was outraged to learn that, under the terms of their employment, Cuban doctors earn only about a quarter of the amount the Brazilian government pays Cuba for their services. This is how Sweden finances their free education as well, it is called taxes. The problem isn't with how Cuba treats specifically doctors but how Cuba refuses to let people emigrate in general.

Yes that confused me a bit as well... I work for a US-based engineering company and they bill clients 3 - 4x what I earn for my work. Am I misunderstanding something about the article?

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#46

Post by aiyodev »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Of course it's free. That's how slavery works. Slaves get everything provided for them but have no freedom to profit from their labor or improve their conditions.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#47

Post by colomon »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Okay, just for fun I punched this into a loan calculator. Assume the cost of their medical education is $200,000. (Everything here is USD.) A ten-year loan at 10% interest would require paying $2,643.01 a month. According to the article, the Cuban government is making about $2,700 a month on each doctor in Brazil.

So even if you factor in free medical education, it's hard to argue the doctors still owe the Cuban government something 10 years after getting their degree.

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#48

Post by wcfields »

kilroy123 wrote: post #34
smt88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you learn about this? I'd like to investigate in more detail.

I heard the same thing from locals when I was there. I have no other evidence to support this.

Same here; evidence I have to support is that the ONLY people with (newer) cars [1] were Airbnb hosts. My host not only owned a late-model Suzuki 4door but also was getting into the business of "flipping" old apartments into Airbnbs/Casa particular. Since he had 24 hour access to the internet (somehow?? [2]) he also acted as the agent for other Airbnbs for people that didn't have access.

[1] Of course there were people with the old cars, but these were passed down and are, as I understand it, required by law to act as a mini-bus service.

[2] Although internet in Cuba is only officially available by buying a hourly code on a scratcher card from the telephone company and then Wifi is in the parks in Havana, I did notice bootleg Wifi SSIDs when walking the streets. They were easy to spot even without "war-walking" since they are a good 1/2 km from any nearby park and had usually a dozen folks on their phones browsing Facebook or using Skype. I suspect it's either an insider connection at the telephone company OR a clandestine Directway / Hughesnet satellite (there are NO visible dishes in Cuba, I believe it must be illegal).

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#49

Post by stretchwithme »

notyourday wrote: post #36
emodendroket wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no kidding, because they have already acquired skills that will allow them a comfortable lifestyle in the US and don't have to deal with any of the downsides.

Unlikely. Medical degrees from Cuba aren't portable what so ever. Cuban doctors are nowhere close to what Americans expect -- don't get me wrong, they are perfectly fine performing basic medical services but don't expect them to know how to use any modern equipment or be familiar with modern protocols used in the West. What is it far more likely is that those who actually live the glorious communist future would make…

'If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce.'

'In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market. A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.”'

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-cuban-heal...

Re: Cuban Doctors Revolt: ‘You Get Tired of Being a Slave’

#50

Post by kryptiskt »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #4

You know I can't really feel their plight. Take this: >Hundreds of miles away, in Minas Gerais State, Dr. Jiménez, 34, found the work rewarding, but also began to harbor feelings of resentment. “You are trained in Cuba and our education is free, health care is free, but at what price?” she said. “You wind up paying for it your whole life.” Is that not the point? The communist government allows anybody to attend their…

Is it free if it sets you up for working for 900 dollars a month in the best case for a mid-thirties medical professional? Or working for a complete pittance at home? Seems to me that there are pretty horrid strings attached to that deal. I can feel for their plight.
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