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How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

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Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#61

Post by akhilcacharya »

fiblye wrote: post #34
saimiam wrote: post #14

(Not an economist. Current h1b visa holder about to leave the US to grow my company in India.) A country whose indigenous population growth is stagnating, whose indigenous population does currently not pick up all available jobs, whose economy is 6x as big as Canada and Australia combined is choosing to turn away immigrants. From a purely numerical standpoint, an 18T dollar economy built by 330M individuals will star…

America isn't turning away Nobel Prize winners. This system is open to those who are educated and/or skilled. It's difficult for those who aren't. Many countries have similar immigration standards. It's only when America does it that people get angry. It's quite difficult for skilled workers to get visas to the EU. Far harder than it is for Europeans to move to America.

>It's only when America does it that people get angry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#62

Post by imron »

eb0la wrote: post #32

I'm wondering what will happen to the housing market in the US and Europe in case this bill gets approved. There is a market for middle-high income people that buys housing out of their home country just in case the political situation becomes unfavorable. In fact some countries give you residence if you spend a high amount of money on real estate.

It's probably good for the locals if wealthy people living outside the country don't buy up housing stock for use just in case their country goes to pieces.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#63

Post by saimiam »

geff82 wrote: post #41

For all you non-Nobel-Price holders that aren't uneducated and want to live somewhere else: Germany welcomes you. Actually, having a bachelor's degree in the STEM field almost automatically gets you a visa for "searching work" for 6-12 months. If in that time you find a job that pays at least ca. 40.000 Euro, you get the "BlueCard" which leads to permanent residency after 2-4 years (depending on your German skills).…

Come to India. The demographic dividend of having a captive and growing billion strong market coupled with a vibrant media and democratic institutions make this a no brainer.

Plus, once you make a name for yourself in India, the rest of the third world is yours for the taking.

FD - See other comment about H1B holder fucking off back home to India to grow my company.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#64

Post by biggerbistro »

saimiam wrote: post #49
humanrebar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...whose indigenous population does currently not pick up all available jobs Aren't U.S. companies responsible for retraining workers to meet their needs? Are U.S. companies entitled to business models that aren't supported by U.S. demographics? The idea that employers should just import workers doesn't help underemployed citizens. And it doesn't improve wages of employed citizens.

Fruit picking (which the indigenous population doesn't want to do) is one such business model. Nothing is more nationalistic than living off the land of that nation and that is something native born Americans don't want to do. You can't train away reluctance.

If natives don't want to pick the fruit (ignoring the cost question) then the fruit just doesn't get picked? Perhaps fruit growing in USA is simply not a viable business, importing underpaid laborers (frequently illegally) is not the correct solution to this non-problem.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#65

Post by saimiam »

biggerbistro wrote: post #64
saimiam wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fruit picking (which the indigenous population doesn't want to do) is one such business model. Nothing is more nationalistic than living off the land of that nation and that is something native born Americans don't want to do. You can't train away reluctance.

If natives don't want to pick the fruit (ignoring the cost question) then the fruit just doesn't get picked? Perhaps fruit growing in USA is simply not a viable business, importing underpaid laborers (frequently illegally) is not the correct solution to this non-problem.

A direct outcome of such a choice will be that biodiversity dies out. If produce in America is expensive to produce, your solution will let it go extinct. Extending this train of thought, as different areas of the world become wealthy, their flora will succumb to market pressures of the type you're envisioning.

In the end, everyone will be eating foods from the least developed area today.

I'm pretty certain you wouldn't want this outcome.

(Edit1 for clarity.)

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#66

Post by dxbydt »

Hey, it's a decent MVP! If you sort by points and pick the top k, that's already better than H1B by a long shot. Getting to the threshold of 30 is hard but doable, and using standardized tests is a big plus to level the playing field. It's probably best to replace the "foreign degree" points with a standardized test as well. There's too much variance in quality when it comes to foreign degrees - depending on which univ you go to, the foreign degree may be better than Harvard or worse than the proverbial toilet paper. With such a wide variance, especially in vital fields like medicine, US currently relies on standardized medical tests like Step2, Step3 to admit FMGs - this cuts down on all the "fake doctors" since these tests are hard to game. You could do the exact same thing for STEM - wide variety of good standardized tests to choose from. In fact, this is a good startup opportunity to design and administer a standard battery of tests for any foreign BS discipline - there are "monopolies" like Prometrix who do such a shoddy job, startups can surely do one better. Now, like any good MVP, there will be a bunch of iterations where congress and lobbyists will tweak these points to ensure their pet cadres make the cut. Hopefully they don't fuck it up too much. Not a fan of this administration, but honestly, this is a competent first draft.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#67

Post by foldr »

koolba wrote: post #18
erispoe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population. This is, to my knowledge, not supported by any fact or study.

If you accept the premise that immigration itself should be limited to a finite quantity (per time period, say per year), it's not a leap to reason that importing highly skilled people is better for the economy than low skilled people. Low skilled immigrants compete against low skilled workers that are already here and depress their wages. High skilled workers do the same thing but at the top end with the added advan…

> or a charity offered to the rest of the world?

Young unskilled workers are a net gain to the economy, especially in an ageing society like the US. It's not charity.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#68

Post by dogma1138 »

sumedh wrote: post #38
dogma1138 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, albeit the former is much more common in most other places. This is the same as the UK, there is virtually no way to immigrate under a work visa unless you are sponsored by a company (you still need to meet the point system). It's also not that easy to get into Australia or Canada on a Visa to look for work, even if you have sufficient points you are much more likely to be declined unless you have a job offer /…

> you are much more likely to be declined unless you have a job offer / sponsorship. No that does not matter, if you have 60 points (for AUS) and there are open slots for that month you can apply for the visa. Preference is given to people who have highest points.

That does matter because at least in Canada you get a lot of points for having a job offer or if you have previously worked in Canada (the former gives more than the latter). I'm willing to bet that it's the same case for AUS.

In most cases having a job offer is the the highest (points wise) score awarding qualification, in the UK currently you cannot qualify for a Tier 2 visa without this (simply won't reach the required points) but in any case in CA and AUS this puts you over anyone else without a job offer pretty much by default.

Hence you are likely to be declined unless you are really over qualified for every other requirement but then it shouldn't be a problem for you to get a job upfront also.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#69

Post by biggerbistro »

saimiam wrote: post #65
biggerbistro wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If natives don't want to pick the fruit (ignoring the cost question) then the fruit just doesn't get picked? Perhaps fruit growing in USA is simply not a viable business, importing underpaid laborers (frequently illegally) is not the correct solution to this non-problem.

A direct outcome of such a choice will be that biodiversity dies out. If produce in America is expensive to produce, your solution will let it go extinct. Extending this train of thought, as different areas of the world become wealthy, their flora will succumb to market pressures of the type you're envisioning. In the end, everyone will be eating foods from the least developed area today. I'm pretty certain you would…

Biodiversity is already dead my friend. Corn and Soy absolutely eclipse other crops in USA because they are the most profitable to produce.

I'm also pretty sure we are talking about different things here, you seem to be speaking of the natural flora while I am speaking of the agricultural uses. I don't understand your point.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#70

Post by pmiller2 »

j7ake wrote: post #7

The system grants 25 points to someone who has won a Nobel prize or something "comparable". Excuse my ignorance but what is comparable to a Noble prize ? I can think of the fields medal, anything else?

In math, the Abel prize, Wolf Prize, or Fields medal would most likely do it, as would winning any of the Clay Institute prizes.
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