Live data from Hacker News

One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

fortune.com

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#61
This raises an interesting notions - can shorting be an effective option for funding legal/social action against a misbehaving company?

So far there has only been two ways to fund social activism against companies - donations and feeds on class-action lawsuits.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#62
post #46

I live and work in Utah, which, for not completely clear to me reasons, is home to a lot of MLMs. Nu Skin, Usana, Xango, doTerra, Young Living, Jamberry (and those are the ones I can just name off the top of my head) are all headquartered here. For an area that in many ways is punching above its weight class in terms of tech companies, I occasionally have nagging (possibly unfounded?) concerns in the back of my head…

The reason I had heard is because Mormon's make great door-to-door salesmen. Many of the men have spent a year or two of door-to-door proselyting (attempting to convert). So they're used to selling to strangers and also being rejected. I'm not sure how true this is, but it seems plausible.

I see a lot of those Mormon young men here in Germany on their mission. There are usually two of them, dresses well and behaving very politely. Although they directly contact people on the street, I never have the feeling that anyone is annoyed by them. Therefore I could well imagine that they are great sales men.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#63
post #33

I use to work in legislative affairs for the natural health industry. It's all one big scam. I try to explain it like this: Company A sells natural remedies, etc. Company B is a news organization which reports on natural health remedies, and also advertises for those companies, et. Nonprofit C is a consumer watchdog organization that investigates and promotes natural health. They are supported by the natural health i…

Seems like a sure thing to short the piss out of an enterprise like this and wage a comprehensive campaign of activism and consumer education against it. With rationality on your side, how could you lose?

> With rationality on your side, how could you lose?

You could lose because the rational choice model does not accurately model human behavior in the real world; people don't act based on perfect information, in part because even when presented with correct information, they are likely to reject it if it doesn't fit their pre-existing world view.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#64
post #33

I use to work in legislative affairs for the natural health industry. It's all one big scam. I try to explain it like this: Company A sells natural remedies, etc. Company B is a news organization which reports on natural health remedies, and also advertises for those companies, et. Nonprofit C is a consumer watchdog organization that investigates and promotes natural health. They are supported by the natural health i…

Seems like a sure thing to short the piss out of an enterprise like this and wage a comprehensive campaign of activism and consumer education against it. With rationality on your side, how could you lose?

> With rationality on your side, how could you lose?

Do you think rationality can win when the President of the United States says that global warming is a Chinese hoax.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With rationality on your side, how could you lose? Hahahhaha. Great joke. Sadly, there are and probably always will be a lot of ignorant/gullible people. As PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."

Given global population growth and birth trends, I wonder if we've reached a sucker every second yet...

Given the current birth rate of over 4 births per second, and considering that almost every newborn will consume nutrients by sucking milk, I'd say that we have reached that milestone a long time ago.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#66

John Oliver discussing Herbalife https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI Bill Ackmann on Herbalife https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQc6L4ieMwo Almost 60% of their distributors were latinos ( http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/15/business/la-fi-herba... ). The lengthy presentation countering Pershing Square's accusations which contained this fact ( http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-48ZAJ9/229776353...…

You may not like it, but it is not necessarily a scam. Some of the posts by Bronte capital mentioned in the article http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2015/06/herbalife-very-lon... http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2016/07/herbalife-and-end-...

Ahm, are you seriously offering those 'articles' as a serious defense or counter argument?

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#67
post #46

I live and work in Utah, which, for not completely clear to me reasons, is home to a lot of MLMs. Nu Skin, Usana, Xango, doTerra, Young Living, Jamberry (and those are the ones I can just name off the top of my head) are all headquartered here. For an area that in many ways is punching above its weight class in terms of tech companies, I occasionally have nagging (possibly unfounded?) concerns in the back of my head…

The reason I had heard is because Mormon's make great door-to-door salesmen. Many of the men have spent a year or two of door-to-door proselyting (attempting to convert). So they're used to selling to strangers and also being rejected. I'm not sure how true this is, but it seems plausible.

Another likely factor related to the high Mormon population is the correspondingly high stay-at-home mother population, for whom MLM looks like a good opportunity to have a career while still being at home for their families most of the time.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#68

I use to work in legislative affairs for the natural health industry. It's all one big scam. I try to explain it like this: Company A sells natural remedies, etc. Company B is a news organization which reports on natural health remedies, and also advertises for those companies, et. Nonprofit C is a consumer watchdog organization that investigates and promotes natural health. They are supported by the natural health i…

extremely difficult for consumers to see through to factual information.

This is why I like consumerlab.org. They summarize the medical research and test to see how much of the active ingredient it actually has.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#69
post #55

John Oliver discussing Herbalife https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI Bill Ackmann on Herbalife https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQc6L4ieMwo Almost 60% of their distributors were latinos ( http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/15/business/la-fi-herba... ). The lengthy presentation countering Pershing Square's accusations which contained this fact ( http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-48ZAJ9/229776353...…

> Almost 60% of their distributors were latinos Uh. What? Can you clarify your point here?

Did you read the link that they posted immediately after that statement?

> Among the biggest accusations facing the company is that it targets low-income members of minority communities, including Latinos, by making unachievable promises of vast wealth from selling its line of protein powders, vitamins, supplements and beauty products.

> This concept has taken off among Latinos, who are taught at an early age that natural remedies such as herbs and juices are a better option than U.S.-style medicine, said Alexandro Jose Gradilla, chair of the Chicano Studies Department at Cal State Fullerton. That makes Herbalife products popular among immigrants.

Re: One Billion Dollars Short, Bill Ackman, and the Siege Of Herbalife (2015)

#70
post #33

I use to work in legislative affairs for the natural health industry. It's all one big scam. I try to explain it like this: Company A sells natural remedies, etc. Company B is a news organization which reports on natural health remedies, and also advertises for those companies, et. Nonprofit C is a consumer watchdog organization that investigates and promotes natural health. They are supported by the natural health i…

Seems like a sure thing to short the piss out of an enterprise like this and wage a comprehensive campaign of activism and consumer education against it. With rationality on your side, how could you lose?

Aristotle realised the rational argument does not always win a long time, and then wrote Poetics.
Post reply on HN